Movie posters of Shazam! Fury of the Gods, The Flash (2023), Aquaman: The Lost Kingdom, and Blue Beetle over blue and white geometric shaped on a pink background. Bottom right is Y. M. Nelson's Nerdy Romantics Podcast logo, and text on the bottom says "2023 Superhero Movie Review."

2023 Superhero Movie Recap – DCEU

As we move into the 2024 summer movie season, host Y. M. Nelson and Perry Constantine of Superhero Cinephiles podcast talk about the DC and Marvel movies that came out in 2023. The year marked the end of the DCEU before the reboot with newly hired James Gunn, and it was the first phase post Endgame for Marvel.

Check out what we think you should watch (or re-watch), what you should skip, and how controversy outside of the movies themselves affected (or may affect) where these franchises go in the future.

For the millions who’ve already got tickets to Deadpool and Wolverine, hear what we have to say about the real first appearance of an X-man in the MCU.

SPOILER ALERT: We will spoil all of these movies (especially Blue Beetle which was one of our highest rated). So if you have not seen these and don’t want to be spoiled: leave this page, go watch these movies, then come back and join our discussion!

Meet this episode’s co-host

Perry Constantine

I’ve been working in publishing since 2005 in various capacities—author, editor, formatter, letterer—and I’ve written books, short stories, comics, and more. My novels have spanned different genres, from urban fantasy (Luther Cross), superhero (Vanguard), mystery (Nakamura Detective Agency), pulp adventure (The Myth Hunter), and more. 

I currently live in Japan’s Kagoshima prefecture, where I teach college and university courses . Besides my writing and teaching work, I also host Japan On Film, a podcast dedicated to Japanese movies, and Superhero Cinephiles, a podcast about superhero films.

Books/graphic novels mentioned on the podcast:

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Y. M. Nelson: Hello Nerdy romantics. Today’s episode is going over–Yes. I know it’s a little bit into 2024 already. So you’re probably thinking 2023 is gone and we don’t want to talk about it anymore. But there were some really cool movies that came out in the superhero -verse, I’m gonna call it, of DC and Marvel. That I do want to talk about.

And today we’ve got Perry, our guest co-host here to talk about them with me. And so the movies that we’re going to discuss in DC that came out in 2023 are The Flash, Aquaman 2: The Lost Kingdom, Shazam 2: Fury of the Gods, Blue Beetle. On the Marvel side, we’ve got Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Spider Man: Across the Spider Verse, and The Marvels. So, everybody get ready. We are talking superhero movies today.

And it probably goes without saying. But I’m going to say it Anyway. Spoiler alert here on all of these movies. We are going to spoil these movies, especially blue beetle. So if you have not seen these movies yet, And you want to please, please, please go see these movies. And then come back and hear our recap and discuss with us.

This is the Nerdy Romantics Podcast and I’m your host, YM [00:02:00] Nelson.

[00:02:10] Y. M. Nelson: Okay, Perry, how are you doing today?

[00:02:16] Perry C.: I am doing great. I’m so happy to be here. I am really excited to talk about these films with you!

[00:02:21] Y. M. Nelson: I am so excited too! Cause I was like, there’s, there’s got to be a nerd out there that loves these movies as much, or was at least as interested in talking about these movies as I was, even though it is now halfway into 2024.

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Meet Perry C. / Catch up with Perry C.

[00:02:38] Y. M. Nelson: But Perry, you know, it’s been a while since you’ve been on the podcast. Tell us, what are you doing now?

[00:02:47] Perry C.: I would be happy to. Well So if people know me and know you from when you appeared on my show, I am the host of the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. So where we talk all about superhero movies and TV [00:03:00] shows. At the moment, we’re on a bit of a hiatus, but we are planning to record new episodes pretty soon.

And some of these stuff, some of these that we’re talking about today, we have talked about on the show, but I’ve still got lots to say about them anyway. As, and I’m also an author too, I have an urban fantasy series that should be releasing a new book by the time this comes out. So that is the the Dark Crossroads series of urban fantasy novels.

Started off with the Luther Cross series, continued on with the Morningstar series, and the latest book is the second book in the Mark of Cain series. That’s going to be called Killer’s Prey. I am, fingers crossed, I am going to have that out by the, for the beginning of June. And I also released a superhero comic book that I did with my friends, Thomas DJ and Eric Johns called Paragons of Earth.

We only managed to get one epi one issue of that. Unfortunately, our crowd funder did not do what we expected, but [00:04:00] we are, we did finish the comic and we are releasing the issue. And what we did there is we took a bunch of superheroes from the public domain, kind of gave them a fresh coat of paint, redesign them, you know, re imagine them.

And. Put them together as kind of like our own public domain justice league. So that’s another tie with what we’re doing

[00:04:20] Y. M. Nelson: Oh yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Cause there’s a lot of re-imagining in my opinion, that’s going on in these 2023 movies. Yeah. From what we originally know or as everybody knows here, y’all already know, I love comics and respect comics as canon, but I was not a comic book reader back in the day, and I have not become the comic book reader that I want to be, but but I do know some of the stories.

[00:04:50] Perry C.: We’ll get you someday. We’ll get you roped in someday.

[00:04:53] Y. M. Nelson: pretty sure I’m halfway there. Let’s be honest, I’m halfway there. Because every time, [00:05:00] you know, a movie comes out like this, I always think, because, because I’m such a Trekkie on, that side, I’m always thinking, of people who have read these comic books and have grown up with them.

What do they think when they see X or when they see Y, you know, whatever it is, because it may not actually be true to the comic or they may be re imagining the comic or, you know, something of that nature. So I’m Perry, let’s be honest. I’m halfway there, but it’s, yeah.

[00:05:36] Perry C.: Marvel Unlimited has a 97 cent

[00:05:38] Y. M. Nelson: my gosh. See, you’re going to hook me. I’m telling you.

[00:05:42] Perry C.: I’m gonna hook you. That is my goal. I’m gonna get you one of these days.

[00:05:46] Y. M. Nelson: Oh gosh. But Perry, it sounds like you do have a lot going on. And I feel you on the writer’s side with the fingers crossed trying to get trying to get a book out. I feel you on that. Oh,

[00:05:59] Perry C.: am [00:06:00] I am, yeah, I’m also doing working on a serial because I’m gonna be starting up a subscription platform soon on Ream. So I’ve got I’ve got that that I’m trying to get this it’s a, it’s a serial that’s inspired by Power Rangers and Super Sentai, so I am halfway through with the first season of that, so I could release it right now, but I’m just so nervous that I’m not gonna have time to get the rest of the season finished, so I’m trying to backlog as many episodes as I can I’m I’m And I’m also writing with Sterling and Stone, and I’ve got an urban fantasy novel that I’m working on with them, with a co writer, right now, as well.

[00:06:36] Y. M. Nelson: how do you sleep?

[00:06:39] Perry C.: That’s a – I do not! I have two toddlers, so I do not sleep. They started preschools lately, though, so, fortunately, I have a little bit more

[00:06:48] Y. M. Nelson: my gosh. I love the kiddies though. Oh, so cool. So cool.

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The Flash

[00:06:53] Y. M. Nelson: Well, y’all let’s get started talking about these movies. Cause I know both of us have a lot [00:07:00] to say. We’re going to actually split this up, even though I kind of thought about maybe not doing that, but we’re going to split this up because I know we got a lot to say.

We’re going to talk about DC first. Well, period. For me, the first movie that I watched that I thought, Hey, we probably should do a podcast episode about this, was The Flash. And my first impressions We’re, we’re gonna do, we’re gonna do a review, everybody, we’re gonna do a review, we’ll do a, we’ll do a rating system.

And Perry, I’ll remind you what the rating system is here. But I wanted to kind of talk first impressions first. When I first started watching it, I thought okay. All right this is what we’re dealing with, but I had, of course, in my mind, and I’ve always felt this way about DC, the fact that they do [00:08:00] not bring the TV shows in with the movies.

The way that Marvel has everything kind of intersected and the way they have the actors playing things on the movies and the TV shows and how the stories interweave. That makes Me as a watcher want to watch everything so I get the whole story and the first thing that I thought When I watched the flash the movie now already knew, you know, it’s not gonna be Grant Gustin here But I also have this lower expectation, I guess When I go in, because I know I’m not getting The Flash version from the CW that I love.

And that I’ve been, you know, [00:09:00] with pretty much watching it episode for episode for at least the first six seasons. And I’ve, of course, watched all of it now, but So I have a low expectation, but as a movie played, I thought, wow, they really did this story. They really did something really good with this.

The Flash was played nervously and like a nerd and Iris was a lot of what I thought Iris should be, or me personally, what I thought Iris should be. And I just thought, you know, the acting of the flash was very much, you know, nerdy, odd almost having kind of a neurodivergent, a little bit representation, which I respect.

I don’t know if that was what the purpose of it was, [00:10:00] but I was really impressed as I was watching. And I want to know if you thought the same thing, or if you were not in that camp.

[00:10:12] Perry C.: so we’re, we’re gonna, so we’re gonna start off with a fight right at the

[00:10:15] Y. M. Nelson: right! All right, I’m loving it!

[00:10:19] Perry C.: Oh, God. Okay, so I, I mean, I’m. I tend to disconnect the, the TV, the, all these things from the comics.

So I’m not necessarily, I’m not one of those people who is, if it doesn’t match the comics 100%, then I hate it. I’m not one of those types. I, I understand that they got to make changes and you know, sometimes some stuff doesn’t translate as well. And when we get to the Marvel stuff, we’re going to be talking about Guardians Of The Galaxy, which they took tons of liberties with those characters and I love those movies.

So, so I’m not I’m not one of those people who’s like, it’s not like the comics. It’s so it sucks.

[00:10:52] Y. M. Nelson: I call them purists.

[00:10:55] Perry C.: yeah, yeah. And, and even when it comes to like, like you’re talking about how [00:11:00] Marvel has everything linked together with movies and TV, whereas DC has it separate. Mostly I’m cool with that too, because DC too, in the comics, they’ve always had the multiverse stuff and they’ve had like the earth one and earth two stuff, so it’s kind of cool in a way to see that reflected in DC.

In the movies and TV shows and to see these different versions of these characters. So I was okay with all that stuff too. That didn’t bother me, but what it comes down to is just, I do not like Ezra Miller’s portrayal of Barry Allen at all. Like I understand being. Yeah, I understand being divorced from the comics and doing your own thing, but I think this is, but I think you need to stay true to the spirit of the character, and Ezra Miller is not at all in the spirit of Barry Allen.

Like there, I, and I’m not even a huge Flash fan, right? I’ve only read like a handful of Flash comics, but what I know of the character is that he’s, he’s, he’s, Ezra Miller is completely divorced from any version of that character that I [00:12:00] have ever seen in any medium. He is just, and it’s just, he’s just doing his own thing.

And I just, I don’t care for it. Kiersey Clemons. I think that was the actress’s name who played Iris. Yeah, she was good. I thought she did a pretty good job. I thought most of the supporting cast on the movie was great. I mean, Michael Keaton is still at the

[00:12:16] Y. M. Nelson: my gosh. He was totally amazing. I was like, oh, I’m just, I want you as Batman again.

[00:12:26] Perry C.: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:27] Y. M. Nelson: Like, yeah,

[00:12:28] Perry C.: He was, He’s the high point of the movie. He’s the saving grace of this whole movie. Yes, absolutely. And, and Sasha Calle did a great job as Supergirl and, you know, she, you know, because as I know, we’re not going to talk too much about it, but because of Ezra Miller’s, you know, international crime spree, he wasn’t able to do any press for this movie or they, I mean, I’m sorry they weren’t able to do any press for this movie and.

Obviously, Michael Keaton, you know, he’s just kind of like, eh, I don’t really care. So I’m not going to do any press for the movie. So [00:13:00] he, and so it’s just, it’s Sasha Calle. Who’s doing like, she had to hold all the marketing for this movie on her shoulders by herself. And she, she was very enthusiastic Supergirl.

I’m really kind of, I’m a little bit, I’m really excited that we’re going to get the new James Gunn, Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow, especially because that was an amazing comic book. But at the same time, I’m kind of I feel like we kind of missed out on not seeing more of Sasha Calle because she did such a great job.

And you know,

[00:13:32] Y. M. Nelson: it.

[00:13:34] Perry C.: no, no, no, they’ve got a, they’ve got a different actress. They’ve, they’ve, they’re rebooting the whole thing basically.

[00:13:39] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. So, so yeah, I, I guess we could, you know, talk a little bit about that because as much as I’ve tried to stay off of social media, so don’t, so I don’t get my, my whole, how I see it tainted. I, I do know, and we do know that [00:14:00] they obviously, you know, DCE DCEU has just like whole new management and they’re, and they’ve thrown out a lot of people that, you know, We’re not going to mention too many names, but they’ve thrown out a lot of people that probably shouldn’t have been thrown out.

And they’re just kind of revamping everything and starting over. So these movies in 2023 were the last of this version of the DCEU. Correct. Am I correct in all of this?

[00:14:33] Perry C.: Yeah, that’s correct. Well, I mean, there’s apparently they’re still keeping they’re doing a second season of Peacemaker though. So which they’re still using the same actors from that. Viola Davis is still staying on as Amanda Waller. John Cena is still staying on

[00:14:47] Y. M. Nelson: Because they know

[00:14:48] Perry C.: all the people from that are.

[00:14:50] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

[00:14:54] Perry C.: I’m not, and I’m not, I’m of two minds on one, on the one hand, I think a clean break. [00:15:00] completely would have been best. On the other hand, you know, I really loved Peacemaker. I think Viola Davis was a brilliant casting choice and, you know, they kept Judi Dench around when they rebooted Bond, so it’s not like there’s no precedent for this.

So yeah, I, I’m cautiously optimistic, let’s say.

[00:15:17] Y. M. Nelson: So I, I’m, I’m, I don’t know if I’m cautiously optimistic. I don’t know if I’m optimistic at all. Let’s be honest. Yeah.

[00:15:30] Perry C.: James Gunn has never made a superhero movie that I have not liked.

[00:15:35] Y. M. Nelson: Well that, that brings in a little bit of optimism for me.

[00:15:39] Perry C.: Yeah. I mean, and you see the stuff he’s posting on about Superman Legacy or now

[00:15:45] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yes.

[00:15:46] Perry C.: They just released the first image of David Corenswet as Superman. I mean, they’re, they’re bringing back the trunks and everything.

I mean, he’s, he’s really pulling into the, he’s really leaning into the comic side of the thing. And he did the same thing with the Guardians movies. So [00:16:00] I’m very excited to see what he

[00:16:01] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. I forgot he was in with the, he did the Guardians when we switched. Yes. Okay. Okay. I’m feeling a little bit better about this, but

[00:16:10] Perry C.: And he did peacemaker as well. And the suicide squad, the second suicide squad movie, the good

[00:16:14] Y. M. Nelson: wow. I didn’t know he did that one yet. That was good. That was a good one. Okay. So I feel a little bit better about this. I will say though, I, I, I do think they need to revamp.

I do think, you know, I’m glad they decided to do this because they did need to revamp.

[00:16:36] Perry C.: It’s kind of a mystery why they didn’t do it earlier. Instead, they had had this weird, like kind of patchwork thing that was going on and it just didn’t

[00:16:43] Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. I’m just like, okay, this took too long for you to figure this out. But then I also wonder in Hollywood, if it is as long as we think out here in the real world, but it feels [00:17:00] like, you know, they should have seen the writing on the wall a little while ago, I mean, even, yeah. Mm

[00:17:09] Perry C.: of it had, there was a lot of like behind the scenes stuff going on, like with all the Warner Brothers management, like they kept changing ownership and they kept bringing in new executives. So there was all that kind of stuff going on back and forth too.

[00:17:20] Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. But I, okay, so I’m gonna, yeah, I’m going to sort of agree with you on the Ezra Miller portrayal a little bit, only because I like Grant Gustin’s portrayal of the Flash.

[00:17:42] Perry C.: Grant Gustin was amazing. I

[00:17:44] Y. M. Nelson: loved him and so that’s why it’s like nothing is going to compare to that to me

[00:17:51] Perry C.: yeah, even, even the late, later seasons of that show where

[00:17:55] Y. M. Nelson: were getting crazy

[00:17:56] Perry C.: it was a struggle, it was, yeah, it was a struggle to [00:18:00] get through those last two seasons, I’ll be honest, but still, like, I, I still loved both Grant Gustin and I can’t remember who plays Iris

[00:18:07] Y. M. Nelson: Yes,

[00:18:07] Perry C.: but I loved her as well, and, Yeah, and I, I, I stuck with it.

I, I made it through the last season and the last few episodes were pretty, were pretty good. They were, they finally, they kind of returned

[00:18:19] Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. And I think they wrapped that, they wrapped that up well, even though it was a struggle to get to the wrap up point and, and the whole, you know, we’ve got to try to make this family that we see 25 years down the road. Oh Lord. No, we don’t.

[00:18:35] Perry C.: Yeah.

[00:18:36] Y. M. Nelson: have to worry about doing that. And then I will say this, I will say this though, but I know actors have different commitments and everything, but you know, when Cisco to me, when Cisco left The Flash whatever the actor’s name is there that played Cisco Ramon, when, when he left to me, it kind of [00:19:00] started going downhill there.

And I felt, you know, and I felt like, you know, the seasons after that, they were trying to do too much with the crossovers because they were trying to bring in Superman and Lois. And then they were trying to bring in Batwoman and Batwoman changed. She didn’t look the same as she did before. Okay. So, I mean, so the crossover, crossover episodes, which were something that I I really liked, I liked those in the very beginning the crossover episodes and you will follow it each week, you know, each, each episode, you know, you will follow it through the different shows and, and things like that.

And it just like the last, the last crossover they did, or the last two crossovers, maybe I was just like, I don’t want to have to find these. Because I was in [00:20:00] streaming point at that time, you know, it was like, I was, you know, streaming them. And so it was just like, it was a little much, but, you know, kind of getting off the point of the, The Flash, the movie, but want to go back to that.

But I do want to agree that, yes, to me, You’re not, the Ezra Miller portrayal is just not going to live up to the Grant Gustin portrayal, in my opinion. It’s just, it’s just, there’s just no way. And so you know, and, and also, of course, when I watched this, all of the all of the outside stuff with the actor was going on or had gone on and, and stuff like that.

And then they said, we’re going to keep this dude. And I said, well, I mean, we’re going to keep this person. And I said, what?

[00:20:52] Perry C.: It’s, it’s even more galling when it, it taints it so much, but it’s even more galling when you find out the fact that [00:21:00] they, You know, trash the Batgirl movie that they had made, which also had Michael Keaton in it and had Leslie, I can’t remember her act, the actress’s name, but she was, she looked great in the, in the photos we saw.

And I, and they’re just like, we’re gonna, we’re gonna throw this out because David Zaslav needs a tax cut to pay for his bonus. And, but we’re going to release the flash. And, you know, they even had. I’m convinced that James Gunn probably never even saw this movie and David Zaslav’s just like, the only superhero movie David Zaslav even knows of is The Dark Knight.

So he just told James Gunn, say it’s as good as the Dark Knight, say it’s as good as the Dark Knight. And James Gunn is probably like, fine, I’ll say this to get the boss off my back so I can get back to working on these movies. And so he said, yes, it’s, it’s good. It’s the best movie since The Dark Knight.

And then I watch it and I’m just like,

[00:21:48] Y. M. Nelson: ha ha ha ha ha!

[00:21:52] Perry C.: And even with all my You know, preconceived biases against Ezra Miller. I hated them [00:22:00] in Justice League. Both versions I hated them

[00:22:03] Y. M. Nelson: I will agree, I hated them in that too.

[00:22:06] Perry C.: yeah. And so I’m just, I, I put aside my preconceived biases cause I’m just like, look, I’m very excited about Michael Keaton. It doesn’t matter. Yeah, that first trailer we saw, I’m like, okay, this looks like it might be interesting.

So I’m willing to give it a shot. And, and I just, I was actually going to see it in the theater, but I actually got COVID like the day before I was going to go see it in the theater. So, and I am very thankful that I did not pay money to see it as a result.

[00:22:35] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I, you know, to be honest, I’m going to say I saw none of these in the theater, y’all. None. There, now there are a couple I wish I had seen in the theater, but this is not one of those. But and I, so I guess it makes the blow that it, it doesn’t make the, it makes it a little bit less, but yeah.

Okay. So I, so we are agreed that I like this one a [00:23:00] lot better than you did.

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Star Rating System

[00:23:02] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. So our before we get too much into it, our ratings are one. We didn’t like it. Two, it was okay. Three, we liked it. Four, we really liked it. And five, it was amazing. And these ratings are based on the Goodreads star ratings on Goodreads.

Yes, we are a book podcast, but we are talking about movies now. But these movies are made from books. Hey, you know. There we go. So I am going to give this one obviously I’m going to give this one at least three stars because I did like it. I will say though Ezra Miller’s portrayal is not why I liked it.

I, I did like Iris, but what I think I started to see and started to like [00:24:00] about About what’s happening here is that there are a lot of Easter eggs that happened, Batman Easter eggs, Superman Easter eggs. There was even a Barbie Easter egg. They did mention Barbie. For some reason, I felt like The Flash theme here was a recycle of The Matrix theme.

I can’t remember exactly how it sounded, but I did write that down.

[00:24:26] Perry C.: Well, the main thing that annoyed me too, beyond just the, the Ezra Miller of it all was just the fact that, I mean, it seems like. The, the, the studio at, I think, Warner Brothers seems to think there’s only one Flash story that exists because they just keep

[00:24:40] Y. M. Nelson: They, right. That’s the

[00:24:42] Perry C.: is not the third adaptation we got of

[00:24:43] Y. M. Nelson: That was the other thing though. I didn’t like, yes. I’m glad you mentioned that because I didn’t, that was the one thing that I really didn’t like is that they are just recycling Flashpoint over and over and over again, and I, I’m not a [00:25:00] comic book reader, but I do know that there are issues with Flashpoint. Like, people have serious opinions about Flashpoint, and I feel like this is probably not the story we should keep redoing over and over. Right? Pick something else!

[00:25:18] Perry C.: it’s a

[00:25:19] Y. M. Nelson: ha ha ha ha

[00:25:20] Perry C.: It’s a good story. I’m not going to, I’m not going to knock the original story. It’s a good story, but the whole thing about flashpoint is it’s your, that’s the first story you’re telling it with the flash, you’re kind of leaving a lot of stuff out and you have to have that, that buildup to it and all that.

And so when you start off with flashpoint, you’re. You have no frame of reference, especially when you’re going to, Because one of the great things about Flashpoint was you got to see this, the other versions of these characters in the original story. So in the original story, you know, in the Flashpoint world, it’s, it creates this new reality where you have Aquaman and Wonder Woman going to war.

Bruce Wayne is the one who [00:26:00] died as a kid. So now you have his father, Thomas Wayne becomes a much more violent Batman, you know, Martha Wayne goes insane and she becomes the Joker. And it’s this really creative use of like redefining the world Superman. And the super girl thing you have here where she’s locked up and everything.

That’s basically Superman in a flashpoint. And the thing that kills me is you have. All these actors there to do Flashpoint. I mean, you could have had I always blank on his name, but the guy who played Thomas Wayne in Batman v Superman, he was also John Winchester on Supernatural. He was

[00:26:34] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. I know who you’re talking about.

[00:26:36] Perry C.: he was yeah, Negan in, in The Walking Dead.

He would have made an amazing Flashpoint Thomas Wayne, and that would have been Awesome to see that there. I mean, I love that we got to see Michael Keaton, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t really make any sense why Ezra Miller traveling back in time suddenly transforms Ben Affleck into Michael Keaton does not work at all.

[00:26:58] Y. M. Nelson: yeah, I mean, it is just [00:27:00] really weird that that whole and then for some reason I wrote down how are they going to deal with Henry Cavill no longer being Superman. And I guess that was kind of in that, you know, when they were, when they were actually going back and showing all that other stuff. Stuff. And I think they kind of blanked out Superman when they were showing all the flashpoint,

[00:27:23] Perry C.: Well, that was, that was, yeah, that was. Oh god, that was, that was supposed to be, well, cause that wasn’t, like Henry Cavill actually did film like a the ending was supposed to be different. The, there was, there were, there were like three different endings filmed. There was one where Sasha Calle and Michael Keaton were, Now in this new reality that was formed and they were like basically the Superman and Batman of this new reality, obviously Supergirl, but and there was another ending filmed with the actors from Justice League.

So you had Henry Cavill there. You had Gal Gadot. You had Jason Momoa and all of them. They were in at the justice league in the end there. [00:28:00] So they had had these different endings filmed. So it’s not that they couldn’t get Henry Cavill. Cavill wanted to come back as Superman. That’s why he did the cameo at the end of black Adam and all of that too.

But he ended up being, he ended up being a pawn in Dwayne Johnson’s power play. And he ended up getting sacrificed as a result of that. And so Henry Cavill wanted to, to come back. He was all set to come back, but that blanked out one that was supposed to be Christopher Reeve, like they had read, they had brought, that’s why you had Helen Slater’s Supergirl there too.

So, which is. And, and then you also had the George Reeve Superman, which that one I think is really tasteless because it’s one thing. Christopher Reeve, it’s one thing, right? He was always very proud of Superman and like the work he did. He was always, you know, he came back for Smallville and all that. And I’m sure if he was still alive, he would totally have come back to do a cameo as Superman in, in this.

So, I mean, so I. I don’t have as much of a problem with Christopher Reeves. Same thing with Adam West, them bringing him, re recreating him. I [00:29:00] didn’t have a problem with that because again, he was always very proud of the work he did. But George Reeves, The man shot himself because he was so despondent over the fact that superman basically killed his career and you’re gonna resurrect him using bad CGI that’s just unbelievably tasteless especially when you have so many still living actors who’ve played different versions of these characters that could have come in I mean how come you didn’t have Grant Gustin and John Wesley Ship in a Flash movie where he’s seen these other versions mean, you know, could have brought in Brandon Routh, give him another try as Superman or have, you know, Tom Welling or anyone or, you know,

[00:29:45] Y. M. Nelson: Even, even Tyler,

[00:29:47] Perry C.: don’t know, I know they asked,

[00:29:49] Y. M. Nelson: the one who’s playing

[00:29:50] Perry C.: yeah, Tyler Hoechlin.

[00:29:51] Y. M. Nelson: now, you know, it’s yeah.

[00:29:54] Perry C.: I mean, apparently, they did ask Christian Bale and Christian Bale was like, hell no.

[00:29:58] Y. M. Nelson: He’s like, I want to, [00:30:00] I want to keep my career looking like, yeah, I want to keep it doing what I want.

[00:30:03] Perry C.: I will say though, I did get a kick out of George Clooney popping up

[00:30:06] Y. M. Nelson: I know

[00:30:07] Perry C.: end.

[00:30:10] Y. M. Nelson: Oh boy. Oh, so there, there’s so much going on here. It’s like, you know, I, I, I agree with you about Flashpoint. There’s a lot going on and there’s a lot there. If this is your first kind of introduction into the Flash, this is probably not, that’s probably not the place that you want to. Get introduced to this character is Flashpoint and I’m trying to think about it.

I mean even with Even with the TV show we didn’t get introduced to Flashpoint. Flashpoint was like season three, I think

[00:30:51] Perry C.: believe so. Yeah, it was, I think, I’m pretty sure it was season 3.

[00:30:53] Y. M. Nelson: So you’re already kind of, you know, there’s stuff building and there’s stuff happening and [00:31:00] things are in place for Flashpoint to happen, which that was also, that was also, if I remember correctly, a little bit polarizing. People were like, they didn’t do Flashpoint right there. Yeah, it’s just, it’s just one of those storylines that is just like, Hmm, is this where you want to start? Is this what you want to put out there for the Yeah,

[00:31:27] Perry C.: Especially when, you know, you had, if you’re not going to do Flashpoint in this alternate world, and you’re going to create this new world that you’re going to do with Flashpoint, okay, fine. But, I mean, the response to Ezra Miller’s performance in Justice League was at best mixed. Like, with all the problems people had with that movie, both versions of it, like, the actors performances were not one of the problems.

Like, I think almost everybody thought that the actors did a pretty good job with what they were given, with the exception of Ezra Miller. So, why are you going to have [00:32:00] TWO Ezra Millers in this movie?

[00:32:03] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. You know, and the, the thing about the Ezra Miller character to, this is, this is just me missing my personal opinion about the Ezra Miller portrayal, not character, I’m sorry. The Ezra Miller portrayal in Justice League that I was not looking forward to here, but I thought changed a little bit was, I thought he was just this big jerk. He was just like a know it all. He was playing it like I’m a know-it-all jerk on like on caffeine like 24 7 and

[00:32:48] Perry C.: Yeah, I mean that

[00:32:49] Y. M. Nelson: and this wasn’t as much of that portrayal in my opinion. It wasn’t as much know it all. He was still a little bit like, [00:33:00] okay, you’re still, you still need to put the coffee pot down. But, but I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t know what what do you, what were you going to say? I’m sorry.

[00:33:11] Perry C.: was, I actually think it got worse in this one because that first scene where he’s, he’s, he’s whining about the fact that he’s, you know, saving people. And I’m just like, come on. And then the whole, the weird, the bad CGI in this movie was unbelievable. I mean, like you invested so much money into this movie and you give us, you know, these ugly CGI baby in a microwave. I,

[00:33:34] Y. M. Nelson: yes, that was horrible. I’m agreeing with you on that. That was totally horrible. And, and for it to be, you know, a studio movie with a lot of money behind it, you would think that that would be better. That was horrible.

[00:33:50] Perry C.: Also, I want one positive thing. I will say is like we got so robbed of Ben Affleck because man, he even with his terrible costume in this movie. He still he still sells it [00:34:00] and like he is he was – he was so good in this movie. And I just, it’s such a tragedy that we didn’t get to see a really solid Ben Affleck as Batman movie.

Cause I think he, if he had, if he had managed to, if he was given a director who actually knew about this character and he was, if, if he himself was able to direct that solo Batman movie and there weren’t all these studio politics Affleck’s Batman in the same breath as we talk about Michael Keaton and Christian Bale.

[00:34:31] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. Something to think about. I, I will say though, yeah, I agree with you on Ben Affleck’s performance here. And I had never really been a fan of him as Batman. But now that you’re saying it, you know, all the politics and everything, I’m like, well, maybe he just didn’t get a chance to be as good as he could be because we

[00:34:57] Perry C.: Oh yeah. I

[00:34:58] Y. M. Nelson: of that here.

[00:35:00] I agree with you.

[00:35:01] Perry C.: Yeah. I mean the. The character was so saddled with the weight of the script that the scripts are putting on him because they were trying to put Batman Bruce Wayne in this very limited box that didn’t really fit that character. And if you look at what he does in those movies, like especially in the, as much as I don’t like the Josh Whedon cut of Justice League, you can start to see these little flashes of what he could do as Batman if he was given the chance in all of these movies.

And also in the Zack Snyder’s Justice League and Batman v Superman, you see these flashes if you look closely at his performance of how good he could have been had he gotten a good script.

[00:35:39] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I’m still loving Michael Keaton though.

[00:35:44] Perry C.: Oh God, he is,

[00:35:45] Y. M. Nelson: amazing. Yeah.

Perry C.: He saved, he saved this movie. He saved this movie. Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:52] Beyond movie with him playing old Bruce Wade. I mean, that he is, he looks the part, he looks perfectly of it. And. someone [00:36:00] had said this to me on, I think it was on my show, that the perfect guy to play like Terry McGinnis would be, I’m blinking on the actor’s name, but he’s the he plays Johnny Lawrence’s son in Cobra Kai.

[00:36:09] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, yes. Yes, I know who you’re talking about.

[00:36:12] Perry C.: And I’m just like, oh yeah, I’m like, he would be that, when I heard that, I’m just like, oh my god, that’s, he would, you’re right, he would be perfect for Terry.

[00:36:18] Y. M. Nelson: Totally! Yes! Oh, wow. Wow, you got me thinking about all this. I didn’t even think about this. I’m just thinking, hey, this Flash movie might be, you know, something okay. But now you got me thinking about all this other stuff. I’m like, oh, see, this is why, this is why I needed to talk to you, Perry. This is why we needed to nerd out about this.

But we talked a long time about The Flash, and I will say The Flash was like kind of the first one where I thought, hey, we probably need to talk about these superhero movies. And I will also say it was, compared to the rest that I watched it [00:37:00] was probably the worst one. Yeah, but! It was the worst one, but I liked it more than you liked it.

Perry. I, like I said, I’m giving it three stars. Cause I did like it.

[00:37:14] Perry C.: Mean, can I give it negative stars?

[00:37:16] Y. M. Nelson: All right. That’s fine. That’s totally fine. You can totally do that.

[00:37:20] Perry C.: will give, I will give Bennett, I will give Michael Keaton, though, five stars, though. Like, he definitely got five

[00:37:25] Y. M. Nelson: we we

[00:37:26] Perry C.: I’d go above five stars for him,

[00:37:28] Y. M. Nelson: we agree on that. We totally agree on that.

back to top

Blue Beetle

[00:37:31] Y. M. Nelson: So let’s move on to the next one. I’ve got is Blue Beetle. And I am going to say right now, Perry I knew absolutely nothing about Blue Beetle, except that I knew the way that they were doing this origin story is not the origin story of Blue Beetle from the [00:38:00] comics I’m thinking.

[00:38:03] Perry C.: not as fami- I’m also not very familiar with Blue Beetle in the comics, at least not this version. I’m a little bit more familiar with the the Ted Kord version of Blue Beetle but only slightly, like, I, I was, I haven’t really read. A whole lot of stuff with either of them. The Jaime Reyes version, I’ve never read any of his comics.

Most of my familiarity with him actually comes from the the Young Justice TV

[00:38:25] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, okay.

[00:38:27] Perry C.: Cause that’s mostly where I’ve seen him, but you know, it’s a, it’s just never really, so I was, I was very kind of meh about this movie. I was just kind of like, I’ll give it a pass. I’m probably not interested in seeing it.

And I until I found out that, you know, again, I’m the Cobra Kai connection we had I, I’m, I am really sorry, but I am, I am positive I’m going to butcher his name, but Xolo Maridueaña as as Jaime Reyes, I love him in Cobra Kai, right? I love. So when I heard he was going to be playing, yeah. So, we heard he was going to be playing Jaime.

I’m like, okay, you have [00:39:00] my attention now. I still didn’t rush out to the theater to see it. I finally did see it because we did a ranking of all the DCEU films on superhero cinephiles with my buddy, Justin DeVoe. So, I saw it because of that. And so I watched it because of that. And. Honestly, this was like in my top echelon of the DCEU rankings.

It was surprisingly good. I think I got to give this a four.

[00:39:23] Y. M. Nelson: gosh. Oh my gosh, we’re gonna agree on something here. I love this one. I really love this one. And as much as I, you know, did not know about this character, maybe it’s because I didn’t know about the character that I could actually go in and appreciate what was happening. But I think for me more so was I loved I loved everything that they were doing with the story.

I loved all the portrayals that were happening, like [00:40:00] George Lopez as Uncle Rudy. What? He was awesome!

[00:40:08] Perry C.: And oh my God, the

[00:40:09] Y. M. Nelson: Yes! The grandma! Oh gosh, and then when she pulls out that Uzi lookin thing, and she’s like, Now, this is how you take down the- I was like, Oh my gosh, she was so amazing!

[00:40:22] Perry C.: but the funny thing is too, like it was, that was so steeped into actual Latin American history too. That’s like, cause like, you know, people who grew up in America, they don’t know about all the crap the CIA got up to in Central and South America. And it’s only stuff, it’s only stuff I learned about, you know, when I was in university, and later I read this excellent book called Legacy of Ashes, which is all about the history of the CIA and the school of the, they name dropped the school of the Americas. I have never seen that name dropped in a, in a Western movie, a big Hollywood production, even ever in my [00:41:00] lifetime. And they just came right out and addressed it.

I’m like, Oh my God. And they made the guy sympathetic as a result of that. And I’m just like, this is

[00:41:07] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

[00:41:09] Perry C.: this movie. It’s so much more subversive than I ever would

[00:41:11] Y. M. Nelson: Oh my gosh. It was, it was amazing. I was like, okay, so this was, this was what I wrote down. And this was probably, I think this was around the time when they were actually going in to get Jaime to get blue beetle and you know, they were, you know actually getting the, you know, getting everything together so they can go in and get them.

I said, Oh man, if Republicans knew about this movie, they would ban it.

[00:41:42] Perry C.: Yeah. Well, even some, even some centrist Democrats, because Susan Sarandon was basically Hillary Clinton

[00:41:43] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yes, exactly. She totally was. Oh my God. I’m like, this movie was no holes barred. And I’m like, I have [00:42:00] never seen, like, the closest I’ve seen is Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. That’s the closest I’ve seen a big franchise movie come to doing the political, the socio-political things that they did in this movie.

[00:42:23] Perry C.: will also say Winter Soldier, Captain America: Winter Soldier.

[00:42:24] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yes. I agree with you on

[00:42:27] Perry C.: yes, otherwise I agree with you, like, and especially for them to do it in Blue Beetle and to do it in the way they did it. Like, it was, it’s there, but it’s, it’s, it’s subtle enough where I think most people wouldn’t pick up on it, which might be a criticism in some, in some sense, but it wasn’t, like, this, it wasn’t, I mean, I, I loved it.

I loved everything about, about this movie. And I, even like the, the references to stuff in the comics, like they, you know, cause I thought like, how are they going to do blue beetle when they’ve got this whole legacy stuff with [00:43:00] him and everything, and they did it. They threw in like the old Ted Kord and Dan Garrett, blue beetle

[00:43:05] Y. M. Nelson: They did!

[00:43:05] Perry C.: They had the, the blue beetle ship and all that. And I’m just like, Oh my God, this is great. And this idea that it’s kind of like, he was kind of like this lo-fi version of Batman was a cool spin on things.

[00:43:15] Y. M. Nelson: Hilarious. This is the lo-fi

[00:43:18] Perry C.: And especially like, you know, Yeah, we have people with opus coming in like Batman’s a fascist. I love that.

[00:43:25] Y. M. Nelson: Oh gosh. There was so many little Easter eggs and so many little things that I kind of wrote down that I was like, OMG, this is crazy. You know, George Lopez mentioning something about pillaging cobalt from dev- developing countries.

Perry C.:  Yes!

Y. M. Nelson: I, you know, I had just, I literally, I literally had just listened to an episode of, I think it was, I can’t remember if it was all things considered or if it was, you know if it was [00:44:00] something else but it was on NPR and they were lit and they were literally talking about cobalt being mined in Africa and the conditions Of what the miners have to work through and how it basically is, you know, a lot, it’s, it’s, it basically looks like chattel slavery almost. These conditions that they are having to, and I, I literally like listened to this probably about five days before I heard, before I watched Blue Beetle.

George Lopez says that I’m like, Oh my gosh! You’re laughing. But at the same time, it’s like, wow, this is, this is too real. This is too real. I mean, he talks rich gentrification. He talks, you know, he even [00:45:00] mentioned like Cruella Kardashian. He calls her Cruella Kardashian! I was like this is so crazy. , but there’s one I will say there’s one part of this and whether it’s for better or for worse is when they It’s when they were trying to go after Jaime and they went into the neighborhood and, you know, basically burned their house down and tried to pull them out.

And, and the father, you know, having the heart attack and dying or whatever. That was very, to me, if you know, if, if I was an immigrant or if I had been in something that, in something like that, or it’s [00:46:00] just, it’s just too real. It’s just, it was very visceral. I guess that’s the word I’m trying to think of. It was very visceral.

[00:46:11] Perry C.: I can see that. And I think, I think that’s actually a strength of it. Because I think it makes you really feel for like

[00:46:17] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:18] Perry C.: go through. And I think that, I think that was, That part of it is a very important part of it, especially like with the the the, the henchman guy, right.

And who had been through the school of the Americas and his, his experience. And like, I think we kind of need to see that story to understand them.

[00:46:36] Y. M. Nelson: We need to see it. We need to see it on a, on that level, on that personal level versus seeing it on the news where we are, yeah, we’ve got this objective distance and we’ve got our opinions, which are usually wrong because we don’t have enough information. Anyway.

[00:46:58] Perry C.: Right. And especially, [00:47:00] or seeing it in like, you know, a movie that’s like dedicated to that sort of thing, where it’s very easy for people to avoid it, like to work it into something like this. And like, I’m, I mean, I’ve,

[00:47:09] Y. M. Nelson: after you’ve already fell and after you’ve already fallen in love with this family, because by that point, I’m just like, I love this family and not only do I love this family, I see, a lot of, little things in what they’re doing. See that in my own family, you kind of, you kind of start feeling for them, even if you don’t see, you know, certain things that they’re doing and you see it in your family, you do start feeling for them and not start feeling for them,

you’ve already fallen in love with them by this point and to see how, I mean, no, they’re not the government, but they’re basically the government. Let’s just say to see how they go in and how this actually. A you know, a raid event, kind of event like this, [00:48:00] how this affects neighborhoods and families, it really, yeah, it’s really something that you need to feel that more of us need to feel so we can,

[00:48:15] Perry C.: well, I think and I think I think that’s one of the reasons why Black Panther was such a triumph because it had all these issues of of racism and colonization all baked into a superhero movie. So it’s yeah, you can get those same things themes addressed deeper And you know, you mentioned Barbie earlier, like using Barbie as like a way to talk about the patriarchy for, I mean, if you do a movie that’s just devoted to those things, people can easily avoid it.

But when you put it in the veneer of a superhero movie or a comedy and all that, and then it’s, it’s a lot easier to get people who wouldn’t, who would normally wouldn’t pay attention to that to sit up and pay attention. Like I. I have kind of a wild theory that maybe you wouldn’t have had as much [00:49:00] support for BLM if you didn’t have the success of Black Panther.

[00:49:04] Y. M. Nelson: yeah. Black Panther. And I will say, and I just watched this documentary, so that’s just why I’m saying it: Black Panther and Black Twitter. So there’s that. Oh my gosh. That, that was a good one. But anyway, totally not nerdy or romantic. But I will say a lot of, I will say to this point though, a lot of romance novels these days, that’s what they’re doing.

They’re doing exactly that. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they’re getting read. You know? Cause people are making money. So they are

[00:49:38] Perry C.: Yeah.

[00:49:38] Y. M. Nelson: But for this one, you’re giving it four stars. I’m going to give it four and a half stars because I’m just nice like that. But you know, this is one of those movies where this is probably one of those, where a lot of people missed it.

A lot of people slept on it the first time around, and I’m just going to tell you [00:50:00] don’t. Especially not in 2024, which is an ELECTION YEAR [in America].

[00:50:05] Perry C.: Well, you know, in fact, I think all, yes, and well, all three of these movies, Aquaman: Lost Kingdom, Shazam: Fury of the Gods, and Blue Beetle. I think a lot of people slept on all three of these because there was, there was this idea that Flash was going to be like the final curtain on the DCEU. It was, so it’s kind of like, all right, well, nothing else after this matters until we get James Gunn Superman.

So I think a lot of people slept on these movies and actually all three of them are very good.

back to top

Aquaman 2: The Lost Kingdom

[00:50:33] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. So let’s talk about let’s talk about Aquaman too. Then you thought, oh, so you’re saying all three of these are really good. Now I’m going to go, I’m going to agree with you on that. But let’s go into Aquaman two. I want to know what you thought about it.

[00:50:50] Perry C.: So well, first I’m going to preface this by saying that I loved the first Aquaman. Like, that was number two, I think, in my DCEU ranking. And And so I, I [00:51:00] had very low expectations for the lost kingdom. But when I saw it, I’m just like, Oh my God, this is really solid. And I think this was also like in the upper half, I think of my rankings.

It was probably like number seven or maybe number nine or something like that. It was pretty up there. And I thought it was, you know, it’s obvious it’s not as good as the first one. I will give it that. It is obvious where they decided they were going to, you know, Cut back on Amber Heard. It seemed kind of obvious when they decided, okay, we’re gonna write her out for a big chunk of the movie here.

Other than that, I mean, I, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed, you know, the kind of redemption arc that we see for Orm. I thought that, you know, Jason Momoa is still so much fun to watch as Aquaman. You know, Yahya Abdul Mateen and Randall Park were great. And just like, there’s so many good things about this movie.

It’s, it’s not as good as the first one, but it’s still a lot of fun. And I really enjoyed watching it.

[00:51:53] Y. M. Nelson: to have to agree with you. I, I, I loved it except for the caveat that, you know, [00:52:00] obviously Jason Momoa is a just a delicious looking man.

[00:52:04] Perry C.: Hey, I’m straight as an arrow, but he would make me have second thoughts.

[00:52:12] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. I love it. I love it when that happens on the podcast, y’all. Oh my gosh. So the thing is, even though I’m a nerd, you know, I’m also, you know, going into a few of these superhero movies. I just want to see the superhero. So that’s how I went into the first Aquaman. I went into it thinking everybody’s going to see this because Jason Momoa is going to be wet and shirtless most of the time.

I mean, that was, that was a thing, but I actually really love that movie. And I’m, I’m not, this is not a [00:53:00] comparison. This, well, it is a comparison, but this is not a you know, I’m pitting these two against each other. I’m not, I’m just kind of making an analogy. I think here that the way Jason Momoa plays this Aquaman character is a lot like the way Chris Hemsworth plays the Thor character because,

[00:53:29] Perry C.: a lot of similarities. Yeah, I can

[00:53:31] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. All right. So I’m not too far off there and it’s just, you know, you see it and like they’re supposed to be all brawny and all whatever, but they’re hilariously funny. You know, and I just think, I think when I was going into the first Aquaman, I was thinking, okay, you know, Jason Momoa, you know, he looks good.

But then I’m like how’s he going to play this? Because You know, the [00:54:00] only reference that I have, you know, are these, you know, kind of violent things, you know, like Game of Thrones or, you know, or it, right, exactly. You just have these, like, just violent things or whatever, but he’s hilariously funny. And, and here in Aquaman 2, With him and the baby.

It’s just, I’m like, Oh my God, he’s so cute as a dad. This is just so hilariously funny. I like watching it. You know, I, I like the story of it. I don’t know how close that is to the comic or anything like that. And I honestly don’t care. Because the story was, the story was good. You mentioned the Orm character and I I have so many little Easter eggs that I wrote down because I just, I love the Orm character.

I’m like [00:55:00] You know, didn’t know anything about this character, but I’m just, I’m just like loving the Orm character and I’m loving the kind of, you know, back and forth that they have. Right. So you know, it’s just, this just was a fun a fun, good time. And, yeah.

[00:55:19] Perry C.: Well, something else you made me think of, too, is when you’re talking about Jason Momoa, and I think something, this new breed of You know, male action stars we’re seeing is a real redefinition of masculinity, because you’ve got these guys like Jason Momoa or Chris Hemsworth, Chris Evans, Chris Pine, all the Chrises basically.

And And but also, you know, like, you know, Ryan Reynolds, Hugh Jackman, you’ve got these guys who are, you know, these traditional images of masculinity with like the buff ripped bods and everything, but they’re not like the testosterone emotionalist type of action heroes we got, say in like the eighties with like, you know, [00:56:00] Bruce Willis or Sylvester Stallone or Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Like these are, you know, these are guys who can laugh at themselves. They’re guys who can, you know, take care of children. They’re, they, there’s a sensitivity to them. And I think it’s really cool that we’re seeing this redefinition of what it means to be a superhero.

[00:56:15] Y. M. Nelson: I I’m going to say that, that in my opinion, yes, I totally agree with that, but I’m going to take that a step further because I’m also looking at it from a romance perspective. And me, I, I was never the demographic for Terminator or Rambo. Or even maybe Rocky, maybe Rocky I was, but I watched those movies and I love those movies, right?

I’m just totally into them. And I think what happened with those heroes that are that are, you know, masculine, but not in touch with who they are kind [00:57:00] of thing, Part of that. Well, part of that was we were not evolved as we are now, I think emotionally, but also part of that you know, Hollywood wise is they’re not even thinking that women actually go see these movies.

[00:57:16] Perry C.: Oh yeah,

[00:57:17] Y. M. Nelson: We’re not even in the demographic, you know, but now I think they realize, Hey, women actually go see these movies and we actually have an opinion about who we want to see. And we actually may have given a lot of Aquaman, the first one. We may have given that a lot more money than it would have gotten if it had have been somebody else. Let’s be honest.

[00:57:45] Perry C.: No, I think, I think you’re very right. I think, I think there’s an absolute, I think there’s an absolute truth to that. And I think that, that could very well be, that very well possibly is a driving factor behind this changing image of masculinity in these movies because they know that these movies [00:58:00] are not just all for, it’s not just guys going to see these movies.

And. And it’s so it’s not just a male power fantasy. It’s also, you know, women want to see these movies too, because they want to see, you know, stories about female characters, which we’ll get to when we talk to when we get, when we talk about The Marvels, but also they want to see male characters who are different version of show a different version of what it means to be a man, as opposed to this emotionalist robot type,

[00:58:29] Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. You know, and, and that, and that trend is also growing in the romance world, I think. You see a lot of what we call We call them cinnamon roll heroes. I write them cinnamon roll heroes. They’re in touch with their emotions they’re not afraid to talk about their emotions and And also, a lot of them, people are authors are writing a lot of them as being, you know, very in touch with their male side, you know, very in touch with their [00:59:00] masculinity, right, or what society deems being a, a very macho dude means. So they’re macho, but they’re at the same time, they’re in touch with their feelings and, you know, You see a lot of that happening right now in, in romancelandia or in romance novels right now.

But yeah, I, I think, A, I think that’s just the way society is trending as we are getting more. As we understand more about what being masculine and being feminine means and getting in touch with ourselves. But also, I think, in general, just what sells. And they, I, I think, and two, I also think you know, now, people are actually writing these scripts with that in mind, that a woman may actually see this, and it may be a bunch of women and no man, right? [01:00:00] It may not be a dude dragging his girlfriend to an action movie, you know, it may actually be a bunch of women getting together to see this hero that’s also good with a baby.

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Shazam 2: Fury of the Gods

[01:00:16] Perry C.: Well, I mean, to, to, to that point, like, you know, we’re gonna talk about Shazam! Fury of the Gods next, and my wife was actually more interested in seeing that movie than I was, so I mean, I think that, that, that goes to prove your point, I think.

[01:00:28] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I, you know, I, I’m going to have to agree with her. I was really like, and I didn’t, I will say this. I did not see the first Shazam because I got caught up. I will say this. I got caught up with the whole, I was trying to understand the whole lore of Shazam and And although we’re not going to talk about Black Adam just how Black Adam fits in and I, I, I was too much into the research [01:01:00] part of it.

And I missed the whole first Shazam because I was just so trying to understand what that means. And then I was also hung up on the fact. The fact that, you know, Shazam in the comics, when he had the power of Shazam, he became Captain Marvel. And then of course, how Captain Marvel cannot be used by DC because Captain Marvel is used by Marvel.

And, and, and that whole thing, so there’s, you know, a bunch of layers and stuff like that and I was trying to figure all that out. And of course, all of that came back to me as I realized, hey, guess what, you’re going to sit down and watch Shazam 2: Fury of the Gods. I

[01:01:47] Perry C.: I think it’s so funny that you got so caught up in your Shazam!

[01:01:50] Y. M. Nelson: Shazam,

[01:01:51] Perry C.: Shazam!

[01:01:52] Y. M. Nelson: yes. And so the first Shazam just passed me by. But this one did not pass me by. And I’m so glad that [01:02:00] it didn’t. I’m glad that I sat and watched it because it was great. I thought it was great. It was so fun.

[01:02:07] Perry C.: I, you know, it’s because this one got a lot of negative reception from a lot of the fans and I was kind of surprised when I sat down and yeah, and you know, it was actually again, my buddy, Justin, who I had on to talk about the DCEUs, like he posted up on Facebook. He’s like, it’s like, wow.

Fury of the Gods was excellent. I’m like. And I hadn’t seen it at this point. I’m like, really? It was everyone else saying it was crap. And he’s like, no dude, watch it. It’s actually really good. And I watched it. I’m like, Oh yeah. I mean, I think this is probably as good as the first Shazam. Like they’re both it’s, it’s, it’s very neck and neck.

Like I will recommend you should watch the first Shazam. It is a lot

[01:02:43] Y. M. Nelson: I’m totally going to do that. Especially now that I’ve seen the second one, it’s like, I really got to watch the first one because you know, I missed the whole wizard thing. You know, I just, I missed that whole thing where he was actually giving her the power for the first time and everything. And I was like, you know what?

I’m missing a part [01:03:00] of this. I really need to go back. You know, one thing I forgot, I forgot before before we start talking about Shazam 2: Fury of the Gods. So what rating are you giving Aquaman 2?

[01:03:12] Perry C.: I think I’d probably go with a 3. 5.

[01:03:14] Y. M. Nelson: I’m going with a 4 on that only because I have the Jason Momoa in love factor. There we go. We gotta add that.

[01:03:25] Perry C.: That would be worth an extra quarter point or a

[01:03:27] Y. M. Nelson: that, that is. Okay. So so you’re saying Three and a half stars. I’m saying four stars. I will say this too. I some of these I actually watched last weekend. Like I literally just watched these last week or two weekends ago or something like that.

So Blue Beetle, I rated that one a five. After I first watched it. I’m rating in a 4. 5 now So just FYI if that gets connected because that is on YouTube somewhere And maybe two people have watched that so they [01:04:00] might be like, oh what happened? Nothing happened there. Nothing happened. Okay. I Just forgot what I rated it. All right, so let’s get back to Shazam 2: Fury of the Gods. So, yeah, my first impression, of course, when I’m watching this is, you know, I just thought this was so hilarious. And, you know, I will say, after I’ve watched Aquaman 2 and Blue Beetle, I watched Shazam, and I noticed, and I don’t know if they’re going to continue this or if this is just,

[01:04:41] Perry C.: they’re not.

[01:04:42] Y. M. Nelson: Well, they’re not going to continue Shazam, is that what you were saying?

[01:04:46] Perry C.: Right. Well, at least not with, at least not with

[01:04:49] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, yeah, no,

[01:04:50] Perry C.: continue, like they’re

[01:04:51] Y. M. Nelson: yeah,

[01:04:51] Perry C.: There hasn’t been any announcement about any Shazam stuff as far as I can recall in any of the DCEU announcements. So as of right now, there’s [01:05:00] nothing happening. There’s nothing planned

[01:05:01] Y. M. Nelson: yeah and I kind of thought that, but I will say, That the tone of all of these tend to be a little more on the funny side. It gives you kind of a little bit of what Marvel has been doing since they started with the MCU. They didn’t, you know, obviously, when they started with the MCU, they started with Iron Man.

I mean, Iron Man was He was hilarious, while not even breaking a smile, he is very sarcastic, funny, he drops Numerous like Easter eggs slash jokes kinds of things. And I’ve noticed that a lot of these movies did that. Whereas before they got to this point, in my opinion, Maybe Aquaman, the first Aquaman did this, the first [01:06:00] Aquaman I noticed did this, but a lot of the DC movies before this point have been They’ve been trying to find a tone that works for their audience And it hasn’t really worked for their audience or the audience that they’re trying to get.

It hasn’t really worked. They’ve tried going darker. They’ve tried, you know, being like straight up corny, you know, and campy. And you know, it just hasn’t worked. And I think like with these movies, like Shazam 2 and Aquaman 2 and Blue Beetle, they have somehow harnessed that sarcastic preteen to adult humor.

You know, fast paced, whatever. And they’ve kind of. harness that. And I think they’ve kind of found [01:07:00] a little bit of, I think they’re, these are landing with their audience. Unfortunately, I think, like you said earlier, everybody slept on these, but these would be the ones that to me would land that audience that they’re trying to get, which is basically they’re trying to take the Marvel audience, I think.

[01:07:21] Perry C.: It, it’s, it’s so ironic that they finally perfect the tone in the last movies that right before they reboot. So it’s but, but to their credit though, I mean, you do have James Gunn who is a master at that tone. Like he he took that formula that Josh Whedon established in the first Avengers movie, and he basically perfected it with the Guardians movies,

[01:07:42] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, gosh. Yes. Now that I know he’s the one that did the Guardians movies. I’m like, I’m, I’m, I’m so yeah, I’m there. I’m there. I, and I think that this tone will kind of continue on and maybe even, you know, really get better. So you know, I [01:08:00] really loved that. That, that tone actually happened here in Shazam 2.

Because I mean, even when they are riding the unicorns and that little girl,

[01:08:14] Perry C.: The Unicorns! Oh my God!

[01:08:16] Y. M. Nelson: was just hilarious. And that little girl was like, she just almost cursed. I was like, this is so great. I was like, this is so hilarious. I just, I, I loved all of this. And I think. You know, part of it for me, with the first Shazam, other than getting caught up in what is the whole Shazam thing, I’m trying to understand the story before that, it’s the whole, am I going to be bored?

Watching Billy Batson or watching you know, an older guy play a 13 year old. Like, I’ve never really liked movies [01:09:00] like that. You know, where like, we really have a teenage mindset and, but we’re really like, you know, 20-something years old and we’re switching bodies and blah, blah, blah. And I think that was part of it for me, but I totally didn’t feel that here.

[01:09:16] Perry C.: I So you never

liked Big?

[01:09:19] Y. M. Nelson: was into it, but looking back on that, I enjoyed it then, but I don’t enjoy it now.

[01:09:30] Perry C.: Okay. Fair enough, because I think the best way to describe the first Shazam movie is basically Big with superpowers. That’s like the, the pure distillation of that movie. It is basically Big with superpowers. So one of the things I will say is like you talked about Megan Goode who played, you know, Dar the superhero form of Darla.

One of the things I think she did amazingly well, and I think it’s, it hasn’t really been talked about because, you know, in the grand scheme of things, she is just basically kind of like a minor character in this movie. But she does such an amazing job of [01:10:00] making you believe that she really is a little girl in an

[01:10:02] Y. M. Nelson: she does. I will say that. I will say she does that very well. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I thought I was going to be annoyed, but I wasn’t. I totally, this, this made me rethink, you know, how I’m trying to think of like the newer movies that do this, like Freaky Friday or, you know, when they change stuff like that, that was never really, that was not, that was not a thing for me.

That’s not been a thing for me. Like,

[01:10:33] Perry C.: Yeah, and I’m not sure if you’ve ever seen anything else with this actress, but Megan Good, she was in, I don’t know, did you ever see Brick, the

[01:10:40] Y. M. Nelson: say it again.

[01:10:41] Perry C.: Joseph Gordon Levitt movie? Brick.

[01:10:43] Y. M. Nelson: I don’t think I’ve seen that. I’ve seen a lot

[01:10:45] Perry C.: Oh, it’s a very good movie.

[01:10:47] Y. M. Nelson: of stuff with her in it, which is why I was like

[01:10:50] Perry C.: okay.

[01:10:50] Y. M. Nelson: Megan Goode in a superhero movie. I was very, so I didn’t, is Brick a superhero movie and I just missed it.

[01:10:58] Perry C.: no, no, no, no, no, no, it’s It’s a [01:11:00] mystery film. It’s, it’s directed by Ryan Johnson who did like, you know Glass Onion

[01:11:05] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All those.

[01:11:06] Perry C.: those. So he did this this mystery film with Joseph Gordon Levitt, and basically it’s. Red Harvest, the, the Dashiell Hammett novel.

But, which has also been adapted into like, you know you know, Jimbo and Fistful of Dollars and Last Man Standing with Bruce Willis and all these. So it’s, it’s this movie that’s been, this story that’s been told thousands of different times in different settings. He did it as a movie set in a high school setting.

So it’s like, instead of all these different gangs, you have these different cliques of people. And Megan Goode plays like this theater girl and she’s kind of like the femme fatale like type of character and she is amazing in that role as that femme fatale. So watching her in that and then seeing her in this playing like this, you

[01:11:51] Y. M. Nelson: Kid.

[01:11:52] Perry C.: childlike, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s like, I’m just thinking about it now.

I’m just like, Oh my God, that’s the same actress. And she has this incredible [01:12:00] range

[01:12:00] Y. M. Nelson: Well, I’m gonna have to see, I’m gonna have to see that then because

[01:12:04] Perry C.: is amazing. It’s so

[01:12:06] Y. M. Nelson: a lot of the things that I’ve seen Megan good in she She tends to play a little bit towards the innocent Now I

[01:12:18] Perry C.: Okay, yeah, you should definitely see Brick then, because she plays like

[01:12:21] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. So that’s totally okay. So I need to see her, but either way, everything I’ve seen her in, I’ve, I’ve been like, okay, you know, she’s good in, you know, so that’s why when I saw her in this movie, I was like, wow, I wonder what she’s going to do, but she did that.

Brilliantly. I was like, yes, she’s, she’s really good at this.

[01:12:45] Perry C.: Also, here’s an interesting piece of trivia about DJ Katrona, who plays Pedro

[01:12:51] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, okay.

[01:12:53] Perry C.: He was cast as Superman at

[01:12:54] Y. M. Nelson: What?

[01:12:55] Perry C.: point. Yes, he was supposed to play. So back in [01:13:00] the early 2000s, I want to say George Miller, you know, from the Mad who directed the Mad Max films, he was supposed, he was hired to do a Justice League film.

It was going to be called Justice League gods and monsters. I think it was called. I think it was, oh, it Mortal, Justice League Mortal is what it was gonna be called. And it was gonna be this, like, kind of pseudo animation style thing, so it would have been kind of like live action mixed with animation, kind of like the Beowulf

[01:13:27] Y. M. Nelson: Yes, I do.

[01:13:29] Perry C.: So it was kind of like that is what it was kind of supposed to be like and Of the of the actors cast like dj. Katrona was cast to play superman So it’s kind of cool to see him play you didn’t get that movie ended up getting You know, I think it was the writer’s strike back then that killed that movie.

And then by the time the writer’s track was, was, had been resolved Warner Brothers had just had moved on from the project which is a disappointment because everything we’ve heard about it sounds like it would have been amazing, but but anyway, yeah, he was supposed to play Superman at one point.

And so now he ends up getting to [01:14:00] play one of the, one of the Shazam spinoffs instead.

[01:14:02] Y. M. Nelson: That is wild. I love that though. I love that for real. I hate that we didn’t get to see that though. That is wild.

[01:14:12] Perry C.: It would have been great to see.

[01:14:13] Y. M. Nelson: cause yeah, because he’s funny. Oh gosh. He’s funny. And Oh gosh. Is his last name Brody? Now, and now I’m spacing on, on, on the actor’s

[01:14:28] Perry C.: Oh, Adam Brody, yeah, yeah,

[01:14:29] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. I was like, I thought I would totally be annoyed by his character, but I totally wasn’t, I was like,

[01:14:37] Perry C.: No, Freddy and, yeah, Freddy in both this movie and the original Shazam was, basically, stole the

[01:14:44] Y. M. Nelson: really?

[01:14:44] Perry C.: he was great in both.

[01:14:45] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, you know,

[01:14:46] Perry C.: Whether it be, yeah, whether it’s, and ’cause it, you know, in the first movie we only see Adam Brody and like, just like basically at that end scene when he becomes the superhero.

So he doesn’t really have a whole lot to do in that movie. So it’s basically just the guy who [01:15:00] plays Freddy and his human guys, Jack Dylan Grazer, who is doing the bulk of the performance. But you know, you watch them in this and it’s clear that Adam Brody was taking notes when he watched that first Shazam movie because he.

You know, perfectly matches what Grazer is doing as the, as the

[01:15:15] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, he does. And it’s just You know, it’s almost like, yeah, this person has transformed, like they really are, a lot of them are really just very close to their young you know, regular people counterparts. And. You know, I, I, I loved all of this. You know, I for some reason, I have so many notes here that I haven’t said anything.

Oh, so the whole Shazam and Wonder Woman, and he’s got a crush on Wonder Woman. That whole thing is just totally hilarious. And

[01:15:57] Perry C.: I thought that was great.

[01:15:58] Y. M. Nelson: just thought that was totally [01:16:00] hilarious. And then, you know, the mid-credit scene, you know, where he thinks he’s going to be, you know, in the justice league, he’s not going to be in the justice league.

They want him in the they want him in the the justice society. Yeah

[01:16:21] Perry C.: which is an interesting side note of that is that the original plan was they were going to have the Justice Society characters from Black Adam in that scene. But, again, this was the Dwayne Johnson power play BS, and so that’s why they ended up having the Peacemaker cast instead.

[01:16:38] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Cause I was like, that was kind of weird. Okay. All right. So that now that makes sense. So I’m wondering if they’re actually going to go forward with all that. Well, anyway, then we don’t know if they’re going

[01:16:50] Perry C.: No, they’re not going to be going like, they’re going to go

[01:16:52] Y. M. Nelson: And of course, Black Adam is over. Yeah, he, that is totally over.

[01:16:57] Perry C.: They haven’t announced anything about the Justice [01:17:00] Society as far as I’ve seen. So we’re probably not going to see anything with them, at least not in this first wave of stuff they got going on.

But yeah, in, in the comics, Captain Marvel was a member of the, the Justice Society. So, and he was one of these golden age comic book characters originally. In fact, he wasn’t a DC character. Originally he was created by by Fawcett and he was inspired by Superman. At one point he was actually outselling Superman, which is why DC sued Fawcett over a copyright infringement.

And they ended up, Fawcett ended up going bankrupt and they stopped publishing the character. And then. When Fawcett closed its doors, DC bought the rights to the Captain Marvel character, but at that point, the trademark had lapsed, and Marvel had snapped up the trademark, and they had kept it, they’ve kept it in continuous usage, so DC still called the character Captain Marvel for decades, but they couldn’t use it in merchandise, they couldn’t use it on the comic covers, so So the comic book that he was in was always called like the power of Shazam.

If you [01:18:00] look like those old, like DC action figures, there was always called Shazam. So I was actually kind of surprised when I read a DC comic and everyone was calling him Captain Marvel. So it wasn’t until, and then eventually after the, in 2011, they finally decided we’re just going to call him Shazam and keep it up and just get rid of that

[01:18:16] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, you know, and, and folks, this is why I missed the first Shazam. All of that, that he just, that’s why I know all of that because I, that’s why I missed it because I was sitting there researching all this, but you know, one thing that I didn’t know that I just realized from this movie is they did have a live action Shazam TV show.

And when they were talking, when when gosh, why can’t I remember anybody’s name when Shazam, I keep wanting to call him Chuck, but that is another character.

[01:18:59] Perry C.: Oh, Zachary Levy.

[01:18:59] Y. M. Nelson: [01:19:00] Zachary. Yes. When Zachary Levy, when Shazam’s character is like talking about, you know, what is your name and he’s out on the street or whatever, and somebody yells out Captain Marvel, that is the guy that played Billy Batson.

And the Shazam TV show. And I didn’t realize, A, there was a Shazam TV show until I saw this. And B, I didn’t realize that they were calling him Captain Marvel. Like when Shazam, you know, Shazams and becomes Captain Marvel. They were calling him Captain Marvel in that TV show. And that was in seventies, 1974.

[01:19:39] Perry C.: Yeah. And also there was a captain Marvel movie back in like 1941. It was a serial. It’s called The Adventures of Captain Marvel and it’s available for free on YouTube. You can watch it for free. It’s like, it’s a, you know, it’s a serial. So it’s like, it’s like three hours long. But we did an, we did an episode on it, on Superhero Cinephiles, and it’s [01:20:00] surprisingly well done, like, for the time period.

Cause, yeah, cause you’d think, like, you know, a superhero serial in the 1940s is probably gonna be, like, unbelievably cheesy, but it was actually pretty sophisticated, and, like, the stunt work was actually pretty, really well done, too. We actually had my guest for that was actually a, a former stuntman. So he had a, had a lot of knowledge about that.

It actually made him want to be a stuntman when he saw that

[01:20:22] Y. M. Nelson: wow. That is cool. Man, imagine working on a superhero movie in the 1940s. Okay, that would be so wild. Oh my gosh. But anyway going off the rails here. Yeah, I, there was just, there were so many y’all, y’all know, I love my Easter eggs and dropping Easter eggs and things. There were so many here. I love the whole part where Shazam.

Is, you know, at the therapist and he’s talking, he’s talking posture syndrome and, [01:21:00] you know, he’s dropping all the names there. I loved I love, you know, at first I thought they were going to do some eighties, some eighties things, but it was really just a really cool reference. You know, the he’s, he’s saving a woman while she’s in her car and they’re playing the I Need a Hero song. And and then he calls Lucy Liu’s character. He calls her Khaleesi cause she’s riding a train. I just like busted out laughing. Yeah. Right. At

[01:21:38] Perry C.: I’m glad you mentioned Lucy Lu. One thing I, I’ve got a question about Lucy Lou. Is she a vampire? Does she have like an aged portrait in her attic? Because she has not aged in like 30 years. Her, her, Paul Rudd and Keanu Reeves are like in, are some sort of immortal, I’m sure

[01:21:59] Y. M. Nelson: They have to [01:22:00] be. They have to be vampires. I think I saw somewhere that he just turned, like, he being Keanu Reeves, just turned like 59 or something. And I’m like, are you kidding me?

[01:22:14] Perry C.: I’m, I just turned 40 and I look older than Keanu Reeves does.

[01:22:19] Y. M. Nelson: Oh my gosh. It’s just so crazy. Oh, but I loved Helen Mirren in this too. I just, I just wanted to say, I loved Helen Mirren in this. And I’m like, wow, this really got, people really slept on this. Cause I didn’t really hear any, but now granted I try to stay away from the buzz, but I didn’t hear, but this has been a long time, you know?

So I didn’t hear any buzz. And I’m like,

[01:22:47] Perry C.: I heard like nothing. Like everybody’s, the people who did see it, mostly they, yeah, mostly people were talking smack about it. So I was, you know, really surprised when, you know, my buddy was like, no, it’s actually really good. You got to [01:23:00] watch it. And I watched it. I’m like, Oh yeah, this is really good. This is a lot of fun. I mean, the, the family themes, it had a lot of heart to it. It

[01:23:08] Y. M. Nelson: found that that was the first thing I put down. I’m like, if you love the found family trope, y’all, this is the found family trope on steroids. This is amazing,

[01:23:20] Perry C.: Exactly.

[01:23:21] Y. M. Nelson: you know, but, but the the humor is just what kind of leads you through all of it. I mean, And, I mean, even Djimon Honsou as the as the wizard. He’s sarcastic, and grumpy, and I loved his character!

[01:23:41] Perry C.: I never knew Djimon Honsou had such a talent for

[01:23:44] Y. M. Nelson: Right. I’ve never seen him in like a comedic role like that. Where he just,

[01:23:50] Perry C.: I cannot think of any time I’ve seen him

[01:23:52] Y. M. Nelson: just amazing. Just, just totally amazing. So what star rating are we giving this Perry? Or what star rating are you giving [01:24:00] this?

[01:24:00] Perry C.: I’m thinking, I’m thinking maybe a 3.5 as well. I’ll give this the same one as I gave

[01:24:06] Y. M. Nelson: All right 3.5 and I think online I gave this one a four. So I’m gonna keep my four here. But totally funny and totally entertaining. And you know, especially if you’re like in a point where you’re just like, Oh, you know, you’re having that feeling, you know, you just, you just need something fun and something to, to take you out of whatever you’ve got going on in your life.

You need to watch Shazam 2. It doesn’t matter if you

[01:24:35] Perry C.: And I think one of the reasons, well, yeah, I mean, as you, and in fact, I think that’s one of the reasons why I kind of knocked it down to three, 3.5, because it’s because I’ve seen the first Shazam movie. So, it doesn’t offer a whole lot new from the first Shazam movie. And they’re both very, they’re both very good.

Like, like I said, in my ranking, these were like, basically I had Shazam and then I had Shazam 2 right after it. So they’re very close. So I think that’s one of the reasons why I kind of [01:25:00] knocked it down a little bit is because I Shazam movie. So this one, it’s not bringing a whole lot new to the table.

[01:25:08] Y. M. Nelson: But yeah, but if you haven’t seen the first one, it is bringing a whole lot of fun. It’s bringing a whole lot of fun anyway. Yeah, it’s bringing a whole lot of fun anyway. But so let’s let’s maybe take a little bit of a break and then we’re going to go into Marvel because if we’ve talked this much about DC, I think we’re going to be also talking a lot about Marvel. Okay.

[01:25:36] Perry C.: Mm hmm. All right. Sounds good to me.

[01:25:39] Y. M. Nelson: While that’s the end of our discussion, it’s not the end of the story. Check out my website at and while you’re there, sign up for my newsletter to get show notes of the episodes’ transcripts in your inbox. [01:26:00] And if you want to see me, my guests, and my guest cohosts on video, please subscribe to my YouTube channel at Nelson. Thanks for listening and for watching.

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