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Y. M. Nelson: Hello, Nerdy Romantics!

We are talking Fantastic Four. In fact, the full title is The Fantastic Four: First Steps. I believe that’s the full title. And we are talking all things Fantastic Four today. So as usual, I just might spoil this, so spoiler alert.

[spoiler klaxon]

Y. M. Nelson: All right, so let’s get into this.

This is the Nerdy Romantics Podcast, and I’m your host, YM Nelson.

All right, we have Perry and Marcie. How are y’all doing?

Marcie G.: Doing pretty good. Doing pretty good.

Perry C.: Very good. Awesome. Yeah, looking forward to talking about this.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Awesome sauce. Well, I will say I am looking forward to talking about this one as well. I am.

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[00:01:23] How did we discover /first watch the movie?

Y. M. Nelson: And, and usually I say for everybody else, I’m gonna ask everybody else how they found it, but I’ll just say this. I watched it for the first time last night. Okay, boy. It was really interesting.

I will say that not only did I watch this for the first time last night, I went back because the numbers were getting to me and went back and watched a little bit of Multiverse of Madness so I could figure out which, which universe we were in.

And and of course did not at that time watch what I wanted to watch, which was actually the second, or as Perry told us on the Thunderbolts episode, the third installment of Fantastic Four the Silver Surfer one Rise of the Silver Surfer, which I wanted to watch that one before we got started with this discussion, but I didn’t get a chance to.

But for everyone else how did y’all end up seeing this one in the theater? What did you talk, what did you go into it with? Obviously Fantastic Four has had some iterations as we talked about on the Thunderbolts episode. So how did you find this one? How did you come into this one?

Marcie, why don’t you start it off for us.

Marcie G.: So, I think I first saw a trailer for it in some other movie I was in. And then I saw it of course at the end of Thunderbolts. You see the introduction. I have seen all of the other older iterations as well. And so, I was interested in seeing what they were gonna do this time.

’cause as we talked about in Thunderbolts, you know, it’s been rebooted a few times, so I was interested to see what the new version was going to be like. So, I, I came to it from a trailer and then in a post credit scene and then looking at it and thinking, oh, okay, you know, we’ll watch that. And so, the family and I went back to see Fantastic Four after we had seen Thunderbolts.

Y. M. Nelson: Awesome. Perry, what about you? How did you first get into this, come across this, all this kind of stuff? What was your first impressions?

Perry C.: So, I was really looking forward to this. I knew about, you know, I follow all the, all the Marvel news anyway, all the, all the comic book movie news anyway, so I knew it was coming.

I was very excited for it. I was a little bit curious about some of the casting choices. Like Pedro Pascal is great, but he wasn’t my first choice for Reed Richards. But but he was, but he ended up completely winning me over in the parts. I saw it in the theater.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: Seen it at least two times since on, VOD.

And yeah, I had a great time and I’ve covered, I’ve seen all the Fantastic Four movies. Even the 1994 Roger Corman produced one that was never officially released.

So, so I’ve seen, and I’ve covered them all on my show too. In fact, we just recorded an episode on First Steps last. About last week. About a week ago, actually. A little, oh, two weeks ago actually. So, so yeah. This is still fresh in my mind. I am, yeah. I, I totally dug it. I thought it was a lot of fun.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

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[00:04:50] What was with the “Jetsons” look?

Y. M. Nelson: Great. Alright, cool. So, alright. Dug it. Thought it was a lot of fun. Okay, I’m going say, I came into this thinking, what is up with the whole Jetsons?

Yes.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: You know, because all the other ones

Marcie G.: that 65 Yep.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. The, all the other ones gave us gave us contemporary. And very much there in that, in that version. But then I thought maybe Earth 8 2 8 is in the Jetsons era.

So, what is everybody else thinking about this? Is did it turn you off?

What, what was going on there with it, with it for y’all?

Perry C.: I was a bit camp. Like people have been talking about that they should do a a, a Fantastic Four movie set in the sixties for at least a good decade. There’s been that chatter online about how that’s, that should be the direction they go in.

And I was never sold on that idea myself.

I mean, I think it makes sense ’cause they were created in 1960s. So, it does make sense that you would set it in that. Jack Kirby, who did the art on Fantastic Four and, created the art style for them. He, you know, there was a lot, you could see that it’s very much like 60 style, you know, retro, futuristic type of design work. So, I could see why they wanted to do that.

But I wasn’t that sold on the idea at first, just because my whole thought going in was, if you’re going to set it in the Marvel universe having The Fantastic Four in the sixties kind of breaks what’s already been established with that universe.

So yeah, I didn’t think that was a good idea, but, and then some people have said, well, they could just have them, you know, be locked in time or something like that.

But I didn’t like the idea of you can do something like that with Captain Marvel because you know, she’s just on earth for a short time. There’s not a whole lot of big public spectacle. But with the Fantastic Four, part of the appeal of them is that they are celebrity superheroes. So, I felt like you’d be losing something if they had to be.

In secret in the sixties and then just come back in the, in the modern era. So, I didn’t, but so setting it in another universe is a way around that and, and yeah, they won me over. I love the, I love the look of it. I love the, the retro sixties feel and, and everything. I thought it was a, I thought they.

They used the period setting in a very, in a way that made a lot of sense similar to what X-Men First Class and X-Men Days of Future Past also did well also Captain America: the First Avenger did very well.

X-Men: Dark Phoenix and X-Men: Apocalypse did not do it very well. They just kind of, it was ostensibly superior pieces, but they had basically, they didn’t use that period at all.

And Captain Marvel was kind of like in the middle of like. They used it to some effect, but in other respects they kind of dropped the ball and I felt so, but I thought of all the period piece superhero films we’ve seen so far, Fantastic Four is probably the one that nailed it the most.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Marcie G.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Marcie, you agree?

Marcie G.: So, I agree. I think, and I think it’s because from the very beginning, it pulled you into that time and space and kept you there. And so, I didn’t, I didn’t think about it anymore once I realized, okay, this is where we are. I didn’t go back and look at the lore. I don’t know what universe we’re in.

So, I just, I was able to fully immerse myself there because they did it well. And I think to Perry’s point, they’re consistent. To me it’s like seeing a Ninja Turtles movie, but them not doing the nineties Well, or like not doing, not doing that New York vibe. Well, and it kind of throws you off ’cause you’re like, eh, I know the story, but in this one I think they did it so well.

I did get the Jetsons vibe though when I was looking at it. I was like, it kind of is, but they were able to take us there without it feeling kitschy, without it feeling overdone to me. And so, once I realized, okay, this is the time and the place we’re in, I think they moved through it so seamlessly that I was just immersed in the story they were telling.

And it didn’t feel like a, a crutch or a prop. It just felt like where we were supposed to be.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. I, I’m gonna have to agree with that. I think that yeah. When you’re looking at it in the beginning or when you’re looking at trailers, you’re thinking, where in the world are they gonna go with this?

What is this?

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: And, and the first thing I thought was Jetsons.

But then once you get into it, you’re like, no, this is not the Jetsons.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: This is its own thing and it works.

And yeah, Perry, I would agree with Captain Marvel being kind mid. But I think part of that is that they couldn’t do with Captain Marvel that they can do here is like that sixties Jetson era vibe has a very specific look.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: Whereas the nineties Captain Marvel, it kinda looks like today a little bit, you know. It’s too close in time period. It’s far away-

Perry C.: It’s that too.

Y. M. Nelson: It’s. But it’s kind. But it’s also kind of close where it’s like, okay, we gotta show a Blockbuster Video and we gotta show a phone booth, and then we’re good. You know?

And it’s like, well, not exactly. We’re not really good, you know?

Oh well, yeah. What were you gonna say? I cut you off.

Perry C.: No, I was gonna, I was gonna say the same thing. Yeah. It, it was, it was basically in Captain Marvel, it was just basically used for, scene dressing. I felt like they didn’t really

Y. M. Nelson: mm-hmm.

Perry C.: Do much with like, making it feel like the nineties. I mean, we got the little background stuff. We got Stan Lee reading the Mall Rats script and stuff like that, which is fun.

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

Perry C.: But like. My whole thing is if you’re gonna set it to the nineties, use the nineties soundtrack at least.

I mean, not even that. So

Y. M. Nelson: That’s true.

Perry C.: I thought that was a little bit, it was just I mean, I love Captain Marvel in general, don’t get me wrong, but I just felt like the nineties setting was kind of a missed opportunity there. I.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Whereas here, I think they really did it. I mean, they really immersed themselves in this.

And and, you know, and part part of it is, you know, you mentioned Jack Kirby. Part of it made me actually wanna go and, and, and pull up some comics and see does it look like this? You know, you just get all, you know, whatever. You get kind of, I don’t know about it, but, you kind of wanna look and see, hey, you know, where, where did this, inspiration come from kind of thing.

But I think too, it separated this iteration of The Fantastic Four from all the other iterations that we’ve had. So, you have to decide on your own, if you like this one. It’s not dependent on do you, did you like the one with Jessica Alba? Did you like that one? And, and does, and does that one compare to this one? It’s not a comparison. There’s no comparison here.

And I think part of it has to do with the fact that they set it in this way. So, it feels like it’s a totally different. It’s not different characters, but you know what I’m saying, it’s

Marcie G.: mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: It’s just a totally different vibe and a totally different movie that you have to just kind of judge on its own. Yeah.

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[00:12:39] Character Portrayals: Mr. Fantastic and others

Y. M. Nelson: I will say though, that even though the movie itself and the setting makes you feel that way, I, I’ve had a tendency to, especially with, with the with the Mr. Fantastic character, the Reed Richard’s character that Pedro Pascal did. I started at first trying to compare and maybe that was not the best thing to do to the other characters and I wasn’t sure, ’cause he was definitely coming off nerdy.

He definitely was giving nerdy, but he, but for me, he wasn’t coming off as suave enough.

But as the movie went on, I realized, okay, I don’t need that. I like this iteration. What did y’all think of the character portrayals? Of I, we’ll, we’ll just start off with the, with the Mr. Fantastic one. ’cause I do have I do have things to say about the thing.

What is The Thing’s actual name?

Marcie G.: Ben Ben

Perry C.: Grim. Ben Grimm.

Marcie G.: Ben. Okay. All right,

Y. M. Nelson: thanks. Yeah, what do we think about the character portrayals here and maybe even the casting here?

Perry C.: So do you wanna go character by character first or do you want us to talk about

Y. M. Nelson: all, let’s, let’s just start with Pedro Pascal’s character first since you know, he’s the big one, because I do have some things to say about Ben. But yeah, let’s start with him first.

Marcie G.: I liked it. I mean, I, so I did not find myself comparing so I didn’t think about him. But even if I did in the background, I kind of think of that. What was that guy, Ian, the guy with the last name?

Perry C.: Ioan Gruffudd.

Marcie G.: Ioan Gruffudd. I mean, I got a very similar vibe. I think he played the character and I think he was believable in the places where I needed him to be believable.

Thank you for that, Perry. I think he was believable in the places where I needed him to be believable, and I also think that he managed to do it without being Pedro Pascal. And I think that,

Y. M. Nelson: yeah,

Marcie G.: I enjoyed that because I didn’t see him as Pedro and I didn’t see him as any of the other characters I’d seen him in.

And I think that was a good thing as well. I think he, I think he embodied the, the sixties kind of angst of, family versus you know, work and my wife and how to do it all. And I mean, I think he embodied that pretty well.

And so, I enjoyed him in the role and I didn’t find myself comparing him to a previous ones.

I think especially since they had already made them adults and they didn’t try to make ’em tweeners. And so, I think it was easier to, to just go with it.

Perry C.: Yeah, I loved Pedro on this. Like I said, I, he wasn’t my first choice for Reed and I wasn’t, and I wasn’t a fan of the mustache going into the trailers. When, when I, when I talked about, when I talked about the mustache with another guest, he actually had a really good idea for Reed where, and I think this is kind of like the way I think of it too because in the comics sometimes Reed is clean shaven. Sometimes he has a full beard.

And my guest, Logan Crowley, he had this really good theory that I could see Reed being someone who, just quickly shaves his whole face and just be, and then just goes on with his day. Or I can see Reed being the guy who just lets a beard grow out because he doesn’t have time for for grooming.

But he said, I cannot see Reed being somebody who meticulously grooms a mustache. And I agreed with that, and I thought that, so I didn’t really like the idea of him with a mustache, but. I still don’t really like it. I’m still not very sold on it, but I don’t, but he also said that what they were probably going for is Walt Disney and the whole Tomorrow land idea and all that kind of stuff.

So, oh, so once they said that, it really kind of clued me into it. I’m like, oh, okay. I can, I, it makes sense now. I still wish, you know, we’d seen Pedro with a full beard as opposed to just a mustache. But it makes sense. I understand why they did it. I also did compare him to the other Reeds we had in the past.

So, Ide White in the 1994 film Ioan Gruffudd in the Tim Story films from the Fantastic Four and Rise of the Silver Surfer and also Miles Teller from the Josh Trak Fantastic Four movie, which was God awful. And he’s definitely my favorite of the bunch. All, all four of them are probably my favorite incarnations we’ve seen of these characters.

But Reed, I think I, I really loved Ioan Gruffudd in the Tim Story films, but he he brought a different kind of energy to it. He was a much more like overly enthusiastic type of nerdy guy.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: Whereas Pedro was much more su subtle. He was much more subdued. I thought it made a lot of sense for the kind of, for the, the approach they showed us with like the idea of him being somebody who always overthinks everything and it’s always like considering the worst possible outcomes that he can prevent it.

I thought that was a very interesting character detail they brought for him and it, and yeah, so I really, I really dug what he, what he brought to the role and also just like the idea that there’s something that he’s bad at. Right. I love the conversation with him and Ben when Ben’s like, you know, Stretch, you’re not as smart as you think.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: And he’s like, yes, I am. He’s like, he’s like, well, how come? He’s like, well, can you cook? And he is like, no, no, no. That’s a, different kind of si. He’s trying to make excuses for it.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Perry C.: When, when they tell them that, that they’re pregnant and Ben says to Reed he’s like, like, so, I expect you to be freaking out by now. And Reed’s, like, I’ve actually got that scheduled for later because Reed Richard, how you would schedule his freak out. So, I thought that was great.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: That it, that was great. I mean, you are right. He’s a little bit more subtle in his nerdiness, which is kind of

Marcie G.: mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: Which is kind of cool. It is like subtle, but at the same time he is like, I know I’m smart. I know I’m a genius. But then he is subtle about it in other ways, you know.

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[00:18:34] The rest of the Fantastic Four: Ben, Johnny, and Sue

Y. M. Nelson: But you know, you mentioned beard, and this is the first time that I’ve seen.

Then the thing with a beard, a rock beard, I like that.

Marcie G.: So cute.

Y. M. Nelson: And, you know, I just I love that actor and I’m gonna mess up his name. Ebon Moss, Bacharach I, I think that’s how he pronounce

Perry C.: it. I think it’s, I think it’s, how,

Y. M. Nelson: how is it

Perry C.: Ebon Moss Bacharach, I think, but I’m not sure.

Y. M. Nelson: Thank you. I knew I was gonna mess it up, but yes, I, I love him as I love him as an actor of, of course, he’s on The Bear. And you know, he’s really over the top. Everybody there is really over the top, you know, anyway, in that show.

And here he’s smooth with it, but I love the sarcasm, but he’s not, like harsh New Yorker sarcasm. Yeah. It’s just like, dude, you know, it’s just so cool.

It’s so cool. Yeah. And then, you know, he has his little crush on the teacher lady. And you know, I just, I loved his character. I loved this iteration of this character when, I feel like in other versions he comes off a little bit more as a side character instead of actually part of the four sometimes.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: And I think here, he just, to me, he just stands out.

But you know, my big standout is, our invisible woman character. I mean, Mama Bear is something else there, especially in the end when, you know, galactic. Galactus had her baby.

Marcie G.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: She’s like, yeah, no. You not about to take my kid,

Marcie G.: right!

We we can help you. But not, not at the expense of my child. Yes. Yes,

Y. M. Nelson: exactly. It’s like, okay, she is not playing. And also, I believe they told a story in the beginning of their parents,

Marcie G.: mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: And, Sue and and I’m blanking.

Perry C.: Johnny,

Y. M. Nelson: the Flaming Torch. Johnny.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: Parents in the, beginning and about the mom. And I was kind of concerned when I saw that happen, but I’m like, oh. We got some stuff going on here. I mean, this is a very interesting story and I know I’m totally getting off the character thing by saying that, but the whole story to me, it was really interesting and really neat and I think it’s going to be a good kind of I, because I think, is it Avengers Doomsday, the actual next movie?

Perry C.: Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, I think this is going to be a, this was a good launching pad.

Perry C.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: You know, when you combine it with Thunderbolts*, this is a good launching pad into Doomsday, right?

Perry C.: Yeah.

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[00:21:47] Fave characters

Y. M. Nelson: So, a, I got off of the whole character thing. So y’all, what was y’all’s favorite character out of here?

Or favorite, or was there a favorite? Did the ensemble just work here? And, and, and b, what did you think about the story? Marcie, how about you?

Marcie G.: Oh, did I have a favorite? So, I will always have a soft spot for Ben. If anything, I think I was, I had hoped to see a little bit more of his romance. Yes, there is one version where you, you meet her, like you, you, I feel like you get more of their relationship.

So, I always have a soft spot for him. But I think this ensemble. The way they presented all the characters together, I think worked so well that I didn’t immediately have a favorite. Like if you ask me, I’ll tell you I got a soft spot for Ben.

But I think that in this version, their portrayal of Johnny and of Ben and Sue and, Reed. I think they were more balanced than I think we’ve seen in some other versions. And so, I think it was easier to see them as an ensemble cast. ’cause I feel like in some of the other ones, either it was a whole lot of Johnny or it was a whole lot, you know what I’m saying? But I think, I think sometimes there were, and so I think in this one, they all had to.

They played into the story more cohesively. Yes. And so, I didn’t find myself thinking, Ooh, I have a favorite, because I think that’s, I, the story, the way they told it couldn’t have been told without all of them. And so, I think that’s a, a mark of this version that I feel like is, is pretty different.

But I think I could say something great about all of the characters and, and, but I wish that I had seen more of Ben’s evolution. In that personal story. ’cause I think it’s just a cool story , how he finds love after becoming that thing. But I also appreciate that they did not play into the bitterness that sometimes you see in other versions of the story and his anger about what happened.

And so, I do think that. I liked, his story and, and you know, the play with the kids in the street and, and all of that and being part of the neighborhood, I think I, I liked that portrayal.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Perry, how about you? Any standout favorites or,

Perry C.: so, I wanna touch on each one a little bit.

So, we talked about you know, Reed already, but it’s for Ben. The important thing to remember about Ben Grimm is that he’s basically the stand in for Jack Kirby, who, who co-created the Fantastic Four, right? Ben Jack Kirby, you know, he’s the, Jewish kid from a working-class background.

Grew up on the lower East side of Manhattan. And he, was a roughneck, he was the kind of guy who would get into scrapes and all that. And he saw art as a way to escape the kind of the neighborhood that he was born into. And like you look at Ben Grim at his, you know, his pension for cigars, which they don’t have in this movie, they do have in the comics.

But his, he’s also Jewish. He’s also from a working-class neighborhood. All of that is, you know, exactly. Jack Kirby. Right. And even his relationship here. So, it was a different character in the other movies and in the comics.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: And in the Tim Story films. Also in the Ron Corman one, he gets he’s involved with Alicia Masters, who’s a blind sculptor.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Perry C.: And she’s the daughter of one of the Fantastic four super villains, the puppet master. But and she also has some of the same ability as he does to bring like sculptures to life and things like that. But I think but one of the things that they did here is, this is not Alicia Masters.

This is a new character. And her name is Rachel Rosman. And Natasha Leone plays her. And the interesting thing about the last name Rosman is that Jack Kirby’s wife was named Roz Goldstein. So, I feel like they’re pulling in another little nods at Kirby in that even the the universe, the number of the universe, eight twenty-eight, Jeff Kirby was born August 28.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Perry C.: So, so, that was another neat little way to kind like tie this back to Kirby. I loved Michael Chiklis in the Tim Story film, but I thought he was one of the standout performances in those films.

Marcie G.: Agreed.

Perry C.: And they definitely, they learned in a lot in that into Ben’s early depiction in the comics where he very much hated the fact that he’d been transformed. He was very angry at Reed. You go back and you read some of those original Stan Lee, Jack Kirby comics. It’s like pretty much every issue. Ben is making some comments about the fact that he’s stuck in this rock form because of Reed. So, it’s like every single issue they keep from bringing that back, they keep hammering on it.

But as Ben evolved as a character, he came to terms with who he is. He came to, he came to accept This is who I am, this is what I look like. I’m just gonna deal with it and move on. And I really liked that they chose that depiction of Ben for this movie. ’cause they’ve been at this for four years now in this universe.

So. It makes sense that he would’ve evolved into the Ben Grimm that we’ve seen now on the modern iteration of the comics, where he is comfortable with who he is. And he was great.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Perry C.: His little sarcastic remarks, still being integrated into his old neighborhood. Right. All of that was vintage Ben Grim, so I loved all of that stuff.

Vanessa Kirby, she, she may be the standout performance of the film, I think. I thought. Yes. Again, I. I thought Jessica Alba,

Marcie G.: yeah.

Perry C.: Did the best she could have done with the material she was given. But so much of the reason why she was cast was because of sex appeal and the director was terrible to her on set.

Like every time she tried to show mo more emotion in something like Tim Story would tell her. He is like, can’t you do it prettier? Cry pretty Jessica cry pretty, and stuff like that. He was saying to her, and it was such a,

Y. M. Nelson: oh, how awful

Perry C.: miserable experience for her. Yeah. It was such a miserable experience for her that she almost quit acting because of that.

After Rise of the Silver Surfer. So, she tried the best she could have with the material she was given, but you know, you could have gotten Meryl Streep to play her in that role and she couldn’t have done a better job with the direction and the material she was given. So, so I, I cut Jessica Alba, a lot of slack in those movies.

But here I felt like Vanessa Kirby, she is really kind of like the emotional heart of this team’s.

She’s. And, it’s,

Y. M. Nelson: yeah,

Perry C.: just like Sue from the comics, she, she’s exactly like Sue in the comics where she, you know, she’s the, like you said, she’s the Mama Bear. She’s the one who

Marcie G.: mm-hmm.

Perry C.: Is there to hold the team together. And, also the one who’s there to call Reed on his s**t too. That’s also important about her character.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: And so, all of that, I thought Vanessa Kirby did a great job of, so she was definitely my standout.

Joseph Quinn as as Johnny. Again, you know, I love Chris Evans in it, but they definitely overplayed the whole horn dog angle of his character in those movies, which while it was fun, it definitely has not aged very well.

And Joseph Quinn had said in the lead up to this movie that they were gonna tone down that womanizing aspect of the character, and I think it worked for the best ’cause here we see a Johnny who is. Yeah, he’s still a hothead. Yes. He’s still got a weakness for women and all that, but that’s not the core of his character.

Right? His, you know, and I love the fact that we see that he is intelligent himself. Right. He’s not a meathead or anything like that. He’s not just a gearhead, he is somebody who is very intelligent in his own right.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: And it’s just like a different kind of intelligence.

So, I loved everything they did with all four of ’em. And to Marcie’s point too, I think that the whole cast really works together. So, it is hard to find, to say like, oh, this is my favorite. This is my favorite.

As you were asking that question, Yvonne, I was thinking, I’m like, I kept going back. I kept arguing with myself in my head as I was thinking about how to answer, right.

I like ’em all and I think that their interactions, yeah, all together, they each get a little bit of time with each other. So, we see how that they work together on an, on a person-to-person level. And we also see how they work together as a quartet. And I thought it was, it was wonderful.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Marcie G.: I, I’ll echo with what Perry said about Johnny and his evolution as a character in this one. Because they did show both his intelligence in in solving and figuring it out. But also, they, they showed a different kind of depth in his connection to the Silver Surfer and what I think what he saw and heard that he also recognized himself.

And so, I do, I, I am glad that they gave him some more. To work with, because I think at this day and age, they would’ve been tired if that’s all we had gotten again. But I think you’re right. I think the dynamic in the house, and I think the conversations between Johnny and Ben and the conversations between Ben and this, the, this version of Ben and Reed where they don’t have all that angst and they, and.

You know Ben can support him in, and he recognizes when he is struggling and I think that’s something we didn’t get to see in the other ones because I think they were a bit more self-absorbed. In, in,

Y. M. Nelson: yeah.

Marcie G.: In the other films, like very much into the, and so because we moved the story down and, and we’re, they’re settled in the, the, what has happened to them.

I do think it was, it was refreshing to see these evolved characters as opposed to the. The ones we’ve seen before.

I did miss the blind sculpturist. I did miss getting to see the evolution of that relationship and them and them falling in love with each other for something other than what they look like. And so, I am hoping that we get to see a bit more of that. As we see them in other films just because I like the storyline a little bit and I’d like to see more of Natasha Leone ’cause, you know, I love her.

But yeah, if I missed anything, it was that. So, I hope I get to see more of that.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. I, I’m also gonna have to agree there with what y’all said. I mean, I have the standout performances, but I agree that together this cast did the ensemble, did the whole Fantastic Four part correctly.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: They did it the best.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: You know, they worked together very well and they bounced off of each other very well, you know and, I didn’t say much about Johnny, but I do like Johnny here. I like his evolved- I’m with y’all on that. I like his evolved nature here.

I actually, I was not a fan of Chris Evans as the Human Torch.

I’m probably one of the few I, I

Perry C.: Blasphemy!

Y. M. Nelson: I know, right! It’s just blasphemy.

Marcie G.: I mean, he was, I mean, he was what he was, I don’t, I mean,

Y. M. Nelson: yeah,

Marcie G.: he did the best of what he had to,

Y. M. Nelson: you know right. Exactly. I think that’s what that was. I think, the ensemble probably would’ve worked better if they had. If they had this, they would’ve elevated their performances too. ’cause

Marcie G.: mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: I just, I just think that the whole, whole story, like everything that’s kind of going on here is really working for them as well.

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[00:32:57] Storyline in the movie

Y. M. Nelson: So, Perry, I’m gonna ask you this first, what did you think about the whole story idea, but also, I’m gonna, I want to ask as a non-comic reader.

I’ve already looked it up. I know that Galactus and the Celestial Tiamut, they’re not the same thing. Okay. I, I know that. I got that. They’re not the same thing, so I figured that part out.

But the silver surfer role here is this something from the comics? I, was thrown off a little bit by having them paired together and maybe it’s because I just don’t know the comics.

So, Perry, can you enlighten us a little bit on story and villains.

Perry C.: Yeah. So, I just want to quickly piggyback about Alicia, the blind sculpurist. I think they didn’t wanna use her in this because they knew this universe was gonna be ending and they’re gonna be bringing the Fantastic Four into the MCU, so I figured they’re probably saving her for once they make the jump into the MCU proper.

Marcie G.: Thank you, Perry, for giving me hope.

Perry C.: So, yeah, I’m pretty, I, because she’s such an integral part to Ben’s character in the comics. They’re married in the comics now.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry C.: So, I don’t see them leaving her out completely. I think it’s just the case of. We knew this, this was gonna end, we wanted to give him something, right.

Some something there to, and so we decided to show, do it as a nod to to Roz Kirby, because, you know, Jack and Roz Kirby were, were, you know, they, they were like a power couple basically. So, they wanted to give that, that nod to Roz Kirby, I think was what they were doing there.

Y. M. Nelson: Cool.

Perry C.: So, all of that being said, I think what they as for the story goes, yeah, so Galactus and the Silver Surfer are together. If you remember in the, Rise of the Silver Surfer movie, Galactus was that cloud thing that attacked the earth.

Y. M. Nelson: Oh yeah, yeah.

Perry C.: Which, which does come from the comics. It was from the ultimate version of the Fantastic Four, which was kind of like a ultimate Marvel was this thing where they were.

It was like this different universe where they were rebooting the, the characters for like the two thousands audience. So instead of being you know, a teenager of the 1960s, they showed, they did Peter Parker as a teenager in the early two thousands and things like that.

And, mixed results with that. And the, the Jos Frank Fantastic Four film was actually inspired a lot by the ultimate version, the Fantastic Four, the Galactus Cloud thing that was also inspired by the ultimate version of Galactus.

Y. M. Nelson: Okay.

Perry C.: Which fans hate it, right? Fans wanted the, the big, curvy drawn Galactus like we see here.

But yeah. Galactus is, the devourer of worlds and he’s part of this universal balance. There was a one comic book that established that planets are like eggs for Celestial, celestial. And so Galactus goes around and he consumes these worlds as a way of keeping the celestial population in check is kind of what his universal purpose is.

And that that was kind of, you remember in Eternal. So that’s kind of tying they’re bringing that into Eternal and all that.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. That’s why I thought they were the same. I was like, oh my gosh, aren’t they the same thing? You know? But they’re not, but

Perry C.: no, they’re not the same thing.

In fact, Galactus is a holdover from, he’s the last survivor of the universe that existed before this universe. So, he predates the Big Bang and all that.

Y. M. Nelson: Ah, okay.

Perry C.: And and in the comics it is. Norrin Radd is the silver surfer. He, he basically, when Galactus comes to the planet of Zen Law, which was Norrin Radds planet, Norrin Radd, in order to save his planet and his people, volunteers to be Galactus Herald.

And he gets imbued with the power cosmic, which transforms him into the Silver Surfer. And then the, in first story the Silver Surfer betrayed Galactus to help save Earth. And then he becomes, he becomes a superhero after that. In this version, they didn’t go with Norin Rad as the silver surfer.

Instead, they went with his with his wife Shalla-Bal, who in some alternate reality, she also becomes a silver surfer as well. So, since we’re we’re doing a different universe, I think they did this, to use Shalla-Bal as just a way to do something different, but also to differentiate it from the rise of the Silver Surfer movie because you have a lot of the same beats here.

You’ve got the, you’ve got Galactus coming, you’ve got Silver Surfer, you have Johnny and the Silver Surfer, like you have, well that one, it was Sue and the Silver Surfer, you know?

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

Perry C.: You know, she, she basically turns him helps turn him. Whereas in this one, it’s Johnny who does a lot of that and.

So, I think all that done was done just to, just as a way to kind of differentiate it a little bit, which, you know, I thought was fine. I thought it was, I thought it worked well here. And Franklin in the comics, he, again, in one possible future, he actually does become Galactus. So, there is, so they’re kind of hinting at that possible future as well with that.

Y. M. Nelson: Oh yeah, I was wondering about that. I was like, is he gonna become. Oh my. You know, that’s, that’s gonna be interesting. Okay. I can see it. Cool. So basically, what you’re telling us is that this story is pretty much from the comic, right? From the comics. You know,

Perry C.: I, you can, it’s not, it’s not a straight adaptation.

None of the Marvel movies are really straight adaptation.

Y. M. Nelson: No.

Perry C.: But like with everything Marvel does, they take different elements of it. They take different ingredients from the comics. They kind of mix ’em all together and they kind of make their own dish out of that.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. This one is a good dish.

Mar Marcie. Yeah. Marcie, what did you think about the, the story of it all and.

Marcie G.: Oh, I, you know, I love a good inner galactic bully who is showing up to eat everyone alive. I love it. I recognize it when I see it. It feels familiar, but I feel like the silver surfer in this one especially, and the depth they gave her. And I did like Johnny’s connection to her. You’re right.

And the other one, it was pseudo was trying to, to make that connection. But I thought it worked well to move the story along. And it, it had some really good action in it. It gave us a good chance to see Johnny, and it gave us that, that sci-fi feel, it gave me old school Star Trek and, that’s the vibe we were in when, you know what I’m saying? Like, like it gave me the nemesis from other places. And, and I enjoyed I enjoyed that. I think it, it worked well for the story. And then I think it was done well.

And I think the silver surfer that role in the story and how it moved the characters and the choices they had to make. I enjoyed it. I thought it was well done.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. I, I liked it a lot too. I just think that the whole, evolution of their stor–

First off, this is another thing I liked about this also kind of. It is not that it it wasn’t done in previous, but I’m just saying I like it here. I like how they just jump into their story and they give us,

Marcie G.: mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: For the origin part, they just give us the backstory kind of in that whole, Ed Sullivan like show the Ted Gilbert.

Marcie G.: Yeah. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Feel like an Ed Sullivan kind of thing that it was from back in the day.

But yeah, I like how we didn’t have to relive their origin story.

Marcie G.: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: Story. I like how they brought that in. You know, they’re superstars now, they’re. You know, they’re accepted now and we’re actually looking back onto, you know,

Marcie G.: right.

Y. M. Nelson: Well, this is how they,

Marcie G.: is the anniversary of it now and we’re

Y. M. Nelson: exactly,

Marcie G.: we’re gonna look back at it positively.

I think that that was a nod from the creators to us as well to say, we know you already know the story. Let’s not re-hash it for the fifth time. I do think it’s a wise move to do that. Because I did feel like I was watching something new and different and, I appreciated that. Yeah, because I did fear that we were gonna have to sit through that to get to the good part. And thankfully they just moved us right into, okay, cool, everybody’s got their powers. And I think that that made it easier for me to immerse myself in the story because I could just go on previously known information and just keep moving.

So, I did, I appreciated that move forward and not having to watch it happen again.

Y. M. Nelson: We will continue this discussion on our next episode. Make sure you’re subscribed to Nerdy Romantics Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts and visit nerdyromanticspodcast.com to subscribe to our newsletter, where you can get show notes directly in your inbox. Thank you for listening.

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