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Y. M. Nelson: Hello, nerdy romantics! Today we are talking of course, Captain America. Captain America: Brave New World. It came out in February and as of this recording, it is not on Disney Plus yet.

So today, we’re gonna talk all about Captain America: Brave New World. We are going to do some spoilers, y’all. Okay?

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Y. M. Nelson: So, spoiler alert, gosh. So. So happy to have, I’m so happy to have ’em. I guest hosts on. I wanted to talk about this ever since I saw it in February and now, I didn’t write any notes down, so this is going to be an interesting conversation.

Y’all know how I do. So, stay tuned as we talk Captain America: Brave New World.

 This is the Nerdy Romantics Podcast and I’m your host, YM Nelson.

Right, everybody. How are we doing today?

Perry Constantine: I’m doing great. Always good to be here. I’m doing great as well. And we match today.

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. I love this. So, this was the shirt I wore to the, to when I went to see it in the theater. I was like, I had to wear a Captain America shirt. I was just like, oh. And I think everybody here saw it.

Did you see it in the theater, Perry?

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[00:01:50] The Theater Experience

Perry Constantine: Yep. I saw it in the theater and I’m pretty sure I also wore my Captain America t-shirt to see it in the theater. Although I did not plan to wear it today. It just happened to be in my what I was wearing when we jumped on.

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, awesome. Awesome. So, I’m so excited. I forgot to mention everybody.

I’ve got Marcie guest host, recurring guest host, and I have Perry, a recurring guest host with me on today. Oh, we may have Staci a little bit later. And basically, we’re talking everything about Captain America, brave New World, but since I was talking about the theater. Marcie, how about you? I, I wanted to know about the theater experience with y’all.

First off, did anybody at your showing get the the popcorn thing with the shield? Have one person, one person do that. I saw it. I was like, yes. I was like, oh my gosh, because that’s like a $20 thing or $25 thing. I was like, oh my gosh. You know, there’s fans and there are fans. I mean, they’re like super fans out there.

It’s amazing. It’s just totally amazing.

Perry Constantine: No, I didn’t, yeah, I didn’t see that. I mean, I, your listeners may or may not remember that I’m actually based in Japan, so we didn’t have anything like that over in the theater here.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I was gonna ask, do y’all have, do y’all have any goodies or anything that comes out when when these movies come out?

Perry Constantine: Every, it’s not, probably not as common, but every now and then there’s some things like I’ve got when I went to see Endgame. We got like these little, tiny like bobblehead, not like bobblehead, but they’re like these little, tiny like rolling figures type of thing. Yeah. Like they, you put ’em on and they kinda like roll from side to side.

And so, we got, my wife and I, we both went together. So, we got a cap one and a Thor one with our tickets. They also gave us some. Some stickers too. Sometimes stickers are pretty common. When I went to see Deadpool and Wolverine, we got like these paper masks they put on, which my kids got a big kick out of those before they basically tore them up.

Y. M. Nelson: Oh, of course, of course. I love that. I mean, they had so much merch and they had like a, in my theater, they had a, an actual section, like a store kind of. Carousel kind of thing. Not a carousel, but you know what I mean, like a, a mini aisle that had all this Captain America stuff on it. And I was like.

Perry Constantine: Our theaters have like a permanent fixture in there. It’s like a small little gift shop type thing. And they usually have whatever’s playing, they’ve got merchandise related to it. Yeah, I didn’t see a whole lot this time around. Mostly it’s things like plastic folders, which I don’t really care about, but if it was something like a key chain or something like that, that I might’ve bought it.

Marcie: Yeah, I’ve seen merchandise for other things. Like I got some teenage mutant turtle like pens. They actually had pens for all four of the things. But when we went, I guess almost before it was gonna roll out of theaters, so there weren’t that many people in the theater with us, I think in including my mom and myself, there were four of us in the whole theater. And there wasn’t like a whole lot of merch placed anywhere, and they didn’t ask us if we wanted anything.

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

Marcie: Like special when we were at the concession stand, either.

Y. M. Nelson: Wow. But but yeah, I bet that was a nice viewing experience though. A whole theater is

Marcie: just to

Y. M. Nelson: form y and it was awesome.

Marcie: It was, I mean true fans, ’cause we were the only ones there. And the way their theater was situated, we actually had a two-seater. So, it was just my mother and I in our own little section in the dark, like watching the movie. So, it, it felt really intimate. It was pretty fun.

Y. M. Nelson: Oh,

Marcie: That’s neat.

That is neat.

Y. M. Nelson: So okay. Obviously, I, you know, I, I had to go see it. I saw it the first day it came out. I actually, I didn’t know that I was getting an IMAX ticket until after I had gotten a ticket.

I was just looking at the time. And then I, and then I saw the price of the ticket. I said, wait a minute. And then I said, oh, I’m seeing this in Imax. So, but this is the, I guess this is the first. No, Wakanda Forever was the first movie I saw in the theater.

So, I’ve seen a couple movies in the theaters Post Pandemic. But very few. So, it’s one of those kind of events for me.

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[00:06:23] Story Pacing

Y. M. Nelson: I’m sorry, we’re talking about theater experience. Let’s let’s actually get into this movie and talk, start talking about the movie y’all. First thing I wanna talk about though, with this movie is the story pacing of this movie and what y’all thought about the pacing of the movie.

Marcie, what do you think?

Marcie: I feel like it was, it was it was weirdly paced. Like I feel like it was slow and then it really rushed to the end. And I, I feel like along the way it probably could have been a little tighter. In terms of the storytelling, I feel like they were trying to, to communicate a lot of things and bring in a lot of background, and I feel like they were trying to, like, I.

Craft the narrative. And I’m usually not somebody who dislikes that, but in this case, I do feel like there were parts where I was like, this could have been faster, or I don’t know that I necessarily needed this scene to last this long, to get this point across.

So, I do think, compared to some other ones where I, I felt like it, the flow was pretty steady from the beginning to the end. I do think this one lagged a little bit. And then picked up at the end, and then, yeah, I feel like, I feel like the pacing was a little off.

Mm-hmm. I feel like the pacing was a little off. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Okay. Yeah. All right. Staci, welcome. We already we already said that you were coming on, so I manifested you Yes. I manifested you on here. So, Staci, first off, did you end up seeing Captain America? Did you end up seeing it all the way through, or?

Staci: Yes, I did.

Y. M. Nelson: Did you? Okay. And the reason why I’m, I’m saying that y’all ’cause as I said earlier this is not on Disney Plus yet, and I was trying to wait for it to get to Disney Plus. But anyway, we are talking about story pacing, and what did you think of the pacing of it? Yeah.

Staci: I mean, I watched I’ll be honest, I watched because of you. Okay. I mean, I’ve kind of lost my need to watch the Marvel movies. I mean, before I was like, okay, I’m really into the next one. I’m ready, ready for the next one. And now it’s like, okay, I can see it or not. Mm-hmm. And from this movie, the overall, I kind of saw a lot of stuff coming.

You know what I’m saying? It wasn’t, yeah. Anything that was surprising for me for the movie really. And maybe ’cause I’ve heard some of the height, but I mean, I knew certain things was gonna come into it, but. I wasn’t even trying to look for it, but people, you know, put stuff out there like, okay, so you can’t help it if you don’t watch stuff right away.

Yeah. But I do think, like I said about the, maybe the pacing at times might been a little bit slow but I think this character and I. I guess they’re for this character, I guess they’re trying to build a momentum that he’s going to be, Captain America. And I mean, granted, I have no idea what’s supposed to be coming down the line or they’re bringing back people or anything like that.

And he is different from the original Captain America ’cause he hasn’t taken the serum. So, when you’re seeing him doing the stuff, I am a little bit more impressed because he hasn’t taken any of the serum. So, he is super without being super. Yeah.

But their overall pace of it. And I think they did some these things in the storyline about, you know, bring, about the I forgot the character, you know, the, the Black Captain America, the first Black Captain America.

Perry Constantine: Isaiah.

Staci: Isaiah,

Y. M. Nelson: yeah. Isaiah Bradley.

Staci: And I liked the fact that they did pull that in and go into a little bit more detail on that. Because I didn’t really know what I have, if that was part of like, the whole comic stuff. I don’t, I’m not a comic book reader for any of that. So, it was part of it. That’s great. If it wasn’t part that was even better, that they actually added him to it and what they, his history about how he was treated versus how Captain America was, you know? How the one was it Rogers was treated? Yes, Steve. So, I’m glad they had that in there.

But like, I haven’t heard what everybody said, but I mean, overall, it was like, I wasn’t really high expectations, but it was better than I thought it would be.

I have to admit that. Okay. It was better than I thought because I mean, I, you know, I was like, okay, because I saw, was it Falcon and

Y. M. Nelson: the Winter Soldier? Yeah.

Staci: And the Winter Soldier. That, and then it was at the Disney Plus one of the seasons of Disney Plus thing.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Staci: And I mean, I watched it, but I was like, okay.

So, I’m like, okay. I wasn’t really into it. I mean, I’ll be honest, y’all WandaVision was like, that was it. And Agatha All Along would be number two. And then, I wasn’t really expecting much for this, but I was like, okay, this is, this was better than I thought it was gonna be. And I did end up join enjoying it.

But overall, the pacing. It wasn’t like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like we’ve seen in other Marvel stuff.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Perry, what about you? What did you think about story pacing?

Perry Constantine: I. Yeah, I, I dug the movie a lot, although I do co-sign. There was some odd pacing, and I think a lot of that is down to this movie went through a lot of reshoots. Apparently, it got some negative test screenings, and then Marvel-

Y. M. Nelson: okay.

Perry Constantine: Scrambled to do some reshoots and to alter some things, which I don’t know. I’m curious what would’ve looked like originally? I think the, a lot has been made about Marvel and their reshoots lately, and I think that they’re probably focusing a little bit too much on the the focus group and test screening things.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry Constantine: Where I think they should just kind of let things stand and just take a chance on it and see how it works out.

Y. M. Nelson: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I’m going to echo a lot of of what’s said about, and that’s why I put story pacing first when usually I ask y’all, “Hey, how did you come about this?”

So, Staci, I’m glad you reminded me. Yes. Yvonne told me, right.

But that was my issue with it. And, for this movie to, and I’m, I’m wondering about the kind of reshoots and about them trying to please the audience and or please the loud people on social media I’m thinking and them doing reshoots, I’m wondering if that has anything to do with it, but as you’re saying that, but yes, the pacing was very odd for me.

And the pacing was odd ’cause it seemed slow in the beginning, just like Marcie said. And then action ramped up. Really, you know, it ramped up kind of in the middle when we, when we saw Red Hulk and when we saw all of what was going on there.

And then it kind of just sped to the end real fast. And it’s like, okay, wait a minute. What doing here to me? Are you trying to give me whiplash or what I mean exactly what’s going on here? And this will kind of go into our, our our next topic, which is the Eternals. I think they put too much into this movie, in my opinion.

This is just my opinion on it. And maybe it’s because I did watch Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and I think the pacing on that show was great. That pacing worked for me. As a story and how they developed that story.

And how in the beginning he was like, I don’t wanna pick up this shield. I already know that Steve gave me this shield. I really don’t wanna pick this shield up. I’m going to give it to a museum.

And then when museum gives it to John Walker, is that who it is? Okay. So when they give it to, to him, and, and then he’s not happy, but he’s like, well, I’m just gonna keep going with it., That whole story and that whole story arc of him going from not wanting to be Captain America, to being Captain America really just endears you to him being Captain America.

At the end, you’re just like, dude, be Captain America, please. I’m like, pick up the shield. I wanna see you do it. Right.

So, to go from that, to then go in this story, now we’re in it. He is Captain America and we’re seeing him you know, doing amazing things without superpowers. You know, you know, he’s, he’s, you know.

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[00:15:05] Eternals, Red Hulk, and … Wakanda?

Y. M. Nelson: You know, taking on all of whatever’s going on in the world too. All the stuff that’s being said about him, which I think to me that part was, was, was pretty good. I’m so glad that they put the social part of that in there. Because that’s exactly what’s going on out in the real world. Outside people are talking about Captain America being a Black man, and “why is Captain America a Black man?”

Which, that’s part of some controversy we’ll talk about. But I think because they tried to put too much stuff in it, IE The Eternals and I have my own feeling about it. So, Perry, I know you on this because I know there’s comic book. Stuff there. So yeah. Yeah, I got some, I got some issues. I just think they put too much into this, really, in my opinion.

Okay.

Staci: Maybe I missed something. So, the eternals was, the only part of it was the, the island. The, the guy, the island. The island, yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: That was it. That was it. That was the island. The island and them going to the island and blah, blah, blah. And so, people are looking and they’re like. Okay. That’s supposed to be from The Eternals, so it’s making me think Eternals.

So, we’re bringing Eternals in, and I was just not happy with that movie. That’s all. I mean,

Marcie: I didn’t, I didn’t know that, so I didn’t, I didn’t have any problems with the island ’cause I didn’t know that that was Eternal. But that’s just ’cause I don’t know canon. So, I don’t, I didn’t have a problem with that as much.

I do think. Going back to your casting part that I feel like part of the smallness, and please understand that I don’t have anything personal against Harrison Ford. But he moved slow. He talked slow. And I think unfortunately part of the pacing came from trying to keep up with the pacing of, of the actor and the delivery that the actor was given.

And you can’t go faster than your actor’s going. And I feel like that slowed it down some. And I understand that we were looking for someone who had to gravitas to to be the president. And I understand that we needed him to look tortured. And I get it, but I feel like to me, that was part of what was dragging it.

Because to be honest, even when we were doing the Isaiah. Older Captain America, even his pacing was moving with the part of his story that was, he was supposed to be driving, but it really dragged every time we had to account for Harrison for his presence in the scene or in the storyline. It’s, I mean, I feel like to me that was part of more than the island, more than the, I feel like him, the scenes where we had him.

I feel like everyone else had to adjust and then it, I think it, it was weird and I, and again, I don’t have anything against him as an actor. I, I’m a fan of his previous works, but in this particular movie, I don’t know that he would have been having seen his performance, I don’t know that, that he was the right choice for

Staci: Okay.

Marcie: For the character in total, and especially if we’re gonna continue to see, you know, Red Hulk and, and that I don’t I don’t know if he can, I don’t know if I, I don’t think it’s the, the best fit for it in terms of continuity. It was okay. It was, I think he kind of drug the whole thing down. Thank you.

Y. M. Nelson: So, Perry, question for you, because I actually don’t know where Red Hulk fits into Captain America’s story, and I have not seen She Hulk, but I thought that Red Hulk might have been on She Hulk. Was is that true or am I making that up?

Perry Constantine: No, I think you might be conflating maybe Red Hulk with The Abomination. It was Tim Ross’s character from The Incredible Hulk and okay, so he was in that, and Mark Ruffalo also popped up in She Hulk as well.

There was no Red Hulk in that, though. Okay. And he doesn’t really tie into Captain America so much. It’s just more, they just wanted to, in fact, this this movie, it’s, it’s kind of interesting ’cause it’s kind of like a sequel to The Incredible Hulk in a lot of ways ’cause we’re bringing back The Leader, we’re bringing back Ross again, we’re bringing back Betty again.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry Constantine: We haven’t seen her.

Y. M. Nelson: Yes.

Perry Constantine: Since, you know, since The Incredible Hulk too.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Perry Constantine: So that was, that was all kind of interesting. I thought that was, and some of that is because- I don’t know how true this is, but there’s always been this kind of speculation that Marvel can’t do a direct Hulk film because Universal has the rights to the Hulk movies.

So, Marvel has the rights to the character, but if they want to do a Hulk movie, they have to have, they have to involve Universal. It’s kind of like, I don’t know how true that is, but that’s the, been the speculation for years. So. If you go back to The Incredible Hulk that was actually distributed by Universal.

Y. M. Nelson: Universal. It was, yeah.

Perry Constantine: It was Marvel. Yeah. And that was before the Disney buyout and everything too. Yeah.

Just two things I wanted to piggyback off of what you guys said. The T’mu stuff from from The Eternals. I thought that was great. I didn’t mind that. It’s, you know, it was this big thing that happened in Eternals.

I, I didn’t care much for Eternals as a movie myself, but you’re gonna have, you know. A big ass space monster plopped down in the middle of the Arctic and you’re dealing with a shared continuity. It’s kind of something you might wanna address in the future, and I thought they found a really interesting way to use that as the back door to introduce adamantium into the MCU.

So, so all that I was pretty cool too. And I like the idea of Adamantium being like this kind of new geopolitical football that’s emerged out, out on the, I loved all the geopolitical stuff in this and I feel like that’s actually where the, where the film’s pacing problems and weaknesses come in is when they just got distracted from, from that stuff.

As for Harrison Ford, I was skeptical going in with him, but I, I had the different reaction from Marcie. I actually thought he did a really good job. I, I really liked him in this. I was expecting him to kind of sleepwalk through it, but I thought he was pretty on point for, for Ross and the whole idea that this is a Ross who is trying to contain himself a little bit more and is trying to like play for the cameras a little bit more.

I felt like that’s where a lot of his slower pacing really kind of came in. I will say though, you know, the reason we got Harrison Ford in the first place is because, you know, William Hurt who had played him in the other movies passed away and

Y. M. Nelson: yeah.

Perry Constantine: Okay. I. I kind of wish that they had, as much as I did like Ford, I do kind of wish that they had went with Sam Elliot, who played him in Ang Lee’s Hulk film. ‘Cause he’s still kicking, and I think he, and he’s like the perfect,

Y. M. Nelson: oh,

Marcie: maybe that’s what it was. I was hoping it was someone else. Maybe that what it was found an

Y. M. Nelson: Lee’s film. Okay.

Perry Constantine: Yeah. I think if he could have gotten Sam Elliott, I think it would’ve been a better choice.

But I, that would’ve been a better choice. Yeah. I like, but I like what Ford brought to the role. Yeah.

Y. M. Nelson: Staci, how about you? What did you think about all the other stuff other than Captain America in Captain America?

Staci: Well, I mean, you said about the, the elementals and the, and the island. I thought that was a great, I thought that was a great way to bring that back in.

‘Cause from Elementals Island, always thought the what. Elementals, what are they called? The Eternals. Eternal. Yeah. As you tell, I really wasn’t paying attention to the movie. I don’t call it Elementals versus Eternal.

Y. M. Nelson: I hated that movie!

Staci: I’m sorry. I watched, but, but I did watch the movie, and I always thought, so there’s somebody, there’s just a big godlike creature frozen, you know, on Earth somewhere, and no one’s mentioned it.

And so now they mention it. So I wasn’t, I was bad at it ’cause I was like. So, no one’s gonna mention that that’s just sitting out there. When, what was this on the timeline? ‘Cause I had not seen it since, really since watching that. And we talk about, they brought up, you know, an anti and then by brain and they were talking about that isolationist country.

And I was like trying to steal from them by the I, every time they mentioned it, they never said Wakanda, but you know, they were referring to Wakanda every time they mentioned, you know, we can’t get vibranium. ‘Cause one of the countries said, you know, I was like, just, you just, every time they said that it just pisses me off a little bit.

And I was like, we saw what you were trying to do in Wakanda forever. You know that you were doing all those things. Mm-hmm. And you know, trying to, yeah. You know, destabilize the government, but they’re the isolationist country. And I just don’t, I, that irked me every time they said that. I agree. But I thought, you know, they talked about the new substance and all that, and then that the the substance that, that’s for

Y. M. Nelson: Wolverine,

Staci: right?

I was like, yes. Oh, okay. Are they gonna actually do the

Y. M. Nelson: bring

Staci: in, you know, yeah. X yeah. X-Men to it. So. And where does, and if this is where they just find it, or this is the first time it’s on this planet, or they’ve had stuff before. ‘Cause where is Wolverine on the timeline if his skeleton is made? I mean, I was just thinking of stuff like that.

Where is it on the timeline? Because I thought mm-hmm. You know, is he, because I knew it was usually it was bone and then they put that, you know put the, put it on his on his bone. Right? So where is, where are we on the timeline with X-Men then if, or

especially Wolverine for that.

Marcie: Right. But they had him in a lab, so they had already been, so they had to have testing before then?

Perry Constantine: Well, no, he was a, that was a Wolverine from a different universe, so it’s not the same. Oh, oh,

Staci: okay, okay, okay. I, yeah.

Perry Constantine: All the X-Men characters. Yeah. All the X-Men characters we’ve seen so far, you know, Professor X in Multiverse of Madness. We saw Beast at the End of The Marvels, and now, yeah. Hugh Jackman again is Wolverine and Deadpool Wolverine and Deadpool himself, all of them. They’re from the other universes. So, in the MC universe, proper, this core universe that the prime timeline. Mm-hmm. Like we haven’t seen the, any of the X-Men yet. Okay, I, because this is what, this is

Y. M. Nelson: what universe 8 3 4 and X-Men is in universe 6 1 9. Some crazy numbers that they were talking about that was in Multiverse of Madness when they started talking about the okay, you’re this world and then near this world.

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[00:25:11] The Tie-In movie feel

Staci: I don’t know which world universe everybody’s coming here from. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I mean, I. Just bringing that kind of stuff in and I was like, oh, I remember that reference. You know, I kinda, I liked that about it, just for the fact it was, to me, this was like a big tie- in movie. Let’s, you know, let’s tie this in, let’s tie that in, let’s tie this.

And we might have something unique that could bring into the Marvel universe. But it seemed like it tried to tie in a whole lot of different things that we are hearing, you know, ’cause we are seeing that from the and I’m gonna say elementary. Eternals Eternals. Yeah. And they were bringing this from the exit and all that, and it’s like, oh, you’re bringing all this other stuff.

What’s gonna be happening next? So, I’m not sure if this movie feels like a tie in or introductory to something else, but for somebody who’s watched, you know, knows the whole, whatever the roadmap that Mar was trying to use, maybe can tell us more. But you know, for me it looks, feels like a tie-in movie.

Y. M. Nelson: So, I’m gonna agree with you there.

It feels like a tie- in movie. And, you know, I said this when Perry and I were talking about the the Marvel movies from 2023, and I was talking about The Marvels, I felt like the Marvels was a tie-in movie as well. And you know. It’s just interesting which movies are tie-ins.

And I guess this is gonna kind of come, come into some of the controversy a little bit and kinda, I just have a personal feeling. I’m like, so why did you make the movie starring- since Wakanda Forever, since Black Panther- you made this movie starring this Black superhero, why did you make that one the tie- in? Right?

And then why did you make The Marvels tie- in where the main cast is mostly women. I mean, why are we doing this?

But maybe that’s just me being personal, and me taking it a little too personal. But you do have to have kind of a tie- in somewhere.

I’ve been trying to go back and watch The Multiverse Saga and kind of see where things land. Well, actually right before this at Comic-Con, you know in, we had Dr. Doom revealed, and then right after this, we see Daredevil, but but for the movie part of it, we see, Avengers: Doomsday, we see that poster come out and little teasers of who’s coming out there. So, it’s like, okay. See what you’re doing.

You’re trying to say, okay, this is like the start of the tie- in for the rest of this. This is how we get, this is how we start to get these folks here.

For those who haven’t been watching The Multiverse Saga because that’s another thing, right? So, after Avengers Endgame, I wouldn’t say even necessarily after End game because, because, you know, Marcie mentioned WandaVision. That got a, a lot of high ratings, good ratings. That’s one of the beginning things in The Multiverse Saga, and then Loki, that, that got a lot of play too.

But kind of after that people are like, people are feeling like Staci a little bit. They’re falling off a little bit, you know? So, some of these movies kind of here, especially the Captain America one with all the controversy surrounding it, and also because it’s Captain America is bringing back somebody that we know from the Infinity Saga.

Right. We knew him as Falcon from the Infinity Saga, but you may not know Shang-Chi in the, the 10 rings or whatever.

So yeah, I think, this is one of those big tie- in kinda movies and I agree that this was a lot of tie in. This was a little bit too much tie in for me. But it’s actually bringing in some things a, that they hadn’t talked about yet, because they hadn’t really brought in, they brought some of X-Men in, but eternals people pretty much panned that movie. So, you know, there’s that.

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[00:29:30] Tie-In versus more Captin America: What are we missing?

Y. M. Nelson: So, Marcie, what did you wanna say about the bringing everything in and the tie-in discussion?

Marcie: So, I was gonna say, I think that for me, while I appreciated the tie-ins, I do think that that’s the, I wish that we had spent. More time on Captain America. In Captain America. Like I thought that the part of the story that was new Captain America, old Captain America and even the resolution of that part, I think that I really, I think that storyline was great, and I wish we had had time to flesh that out more.

I wish we had had time to see him in this transition. I, I wish we had had more time to see him, as you said, you know, doing an amazing things. But I think at the second half of the movie, it was no longer really about him. Anymore because then we had to go into the the diplomacy and the, and Harrison Ford trying to hold himself together.

And then the island and the, and, and all of that became somebody else’s story really, truthfully. And then at the end, he comes back and, and, you know, helps save the day. But I feel like I wish that we had spent more time on him on the movie being Captain America’s movie. I felt like it was Red Hulk and Captain America.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, because,

Marcie: Because I felt like it was, I felt like with someone else and Captain America, I don’t know that I felt, and I don’t know necessarily that I even understood the correllation to the Brave New World. Like I’m not even sure that I fully,

Y. M. Nelson: that means

Marcie: understood what that meant. Like why, why was that the tagline for this one as opposed to something like, I don’t know that I know what that meant, figuratively.

Unless it was canon and that’s it, it means something in the moving on of the universes or something. But I didn’t, I didn’t understand why Brave New World was the name of the, like what did that have to do with it? What did it have? Like, I, I didn’t know. I didn’t get it.

Y. M. Nelson: Hmm. Yeah. I agree with you a little bit there. Oh. So yeah, other than the tie- in kind of feeling that I was getting, which that to me signaled part of Brave New World and then the fact that they’re embracing- but see, to me again. Sam Wilson is Captain America at this point. So, to me, brave New World started at the end of Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

That’s when the Brave New World started for me. If you’re, if you’re focusing on Captain Americas as a character, but.

Perry, what are your thoughts on this? And I, I think what it is is we’re tripped up about the story and about how this all fits in with maybe what we know and maybe what we don’t know, but, but how this all fits in with the comics.

Yeah. It feels like there’s some things missing and I don’t know what they are. And can you help us?

Perry Constantine: Well, I guess, I guess I’m not sure exactly what you guys are, are specifically missing, so if you guys have any specific questions, I’d be more than happy to answer.

The tie- in aspect, I think with The Marvels, I thought the tie in aspect made a lot of sense because you have these three characters who are from these three different properties and you’re bringing ’em, but they all have this connection to each other somehow.

Y. M. Nelson: Mm-hmm.

Perry Constantine: So, you’re bringing them all together in this one movie. So, I thought that made a lot of sense. So, you’re bringing in Kamala Khan from Ms. Marvel, you’re bringing in, you know Carol from Captain Marvel, and you’re bringing in oh God, how am I? Blank blanking on her name now. Monica. Monica from Rwanda.

Marcie: Monica.

Perry Constantine: And, you know, Monica and Carol have this existing relationship. And then you have Kamala, who is, who is an admirer of Carol.

So, bringing the three of them together. In one movie that made a lot of sense as a tie- in, that felt like a really organic tie-in it did. For this one

Y. M. Nelson: it did.

Perry Constantine: The eternal stuff that felt like an organic tie in because if you’re gonna be dealing with geopolitical ramifications, a Captain America movie is the best place to do that. Makes sense.

The Red Hulk stuff, the Red Hulk stuff, and The Leader, I think that stuff would’ve been better reserved for if they could work, work it out with Universal to do another Hulk movie.

Marcie: Mm-hmm.

Perry Constantine: And I feel like. You can have Ross as the president, you can have Sterns manipulating him. All that is fine. But I think you should have had that kind of more of in the background and the focus should have been what it was originally supposed to be, which is on the Serpent Society. G Giancarlo Esposito’s character.

Sidewinder, yes. He’s the leader of the Serpent Society. I remember.

Marcie: That’s why I got, that’s what I thought I was watching, but then it, that’s not what I was watching.

Y. M. Nelson: That’s the missing, that was part of the, that’s the missing part for me. Yeah, that’s what’s,

Perry Constantine: That was part of the reshoots. There were originally more, they’re supposed to have, originally supposed to have more of the Serpent Society. There was supposed to be more members.

So, they had there are a few other actors who were actually cast, and they didn’t appear in the movie. Like their scenes were cut out. And just looking through here, I’ll try and find exactly who it is, but there were at least two other characters from the Serpent Society who were supposed to be in this movie.

They were supposed to have been outfitted with like cybernetic enhancements or something from The Leader, which is supposed to have been like, why they would’ve been including, there’s like a wrestler was supposed to be one of them. There was another actress who was supposed to be in it too, and they ended up being cut out.

In the reshoot and they focus more on, and honestly, my biggest issue with this movie was the, the Red Hulk thing.

I’m fine with using the Red Hulk, but I feel like I- that should not have been the focus of all the marketing. I feel like that was something that you could have done all the marketing and kept the Red Hulk out of it. And then in the movie, when that scene happens, that would’ve been a massive shocker.

Staci: Mm-hmm.

Perry Constantine: And I feel like that would’ve, it would’ve worked a lot better that way. And I feel like they, I feel like they got, I think Marvel got very nervous about this movie, and they were worried because. Falcon and The Winter Soldier got kind of a mixed reception and

Marcie: mm-hmm.

Perry Constantine: Also with all the controversy, you know, which I think is complete nonsense anyway, but, but with all the controversy around around a Black Captain America and all that kind of garbage, and so then they- I feel like they got cold feet, and they’re like, well we have to have something big that’s gonna sell this. They decided, you know, to show the Red Hulk stuff in it. And I feel like that was a mistake for the expectation setting of this film.

So, yeah, that, that’s kinda like my, those are my big things about it. And the tie stuff is a tie- in works great, but I feel like the all The Incredible Hulk tie- in stuff, we could have shifted some of that over into another Hulk movie instead and focus more on the, to what Marcie was saying about the brave new world aspect.

It’s supposed to be the fact that you’ve got this mad scramble for the adamantium and the adamantium is shifting these world alliances. That’s what it’s supposed to be about. But that kind of gets a little bit lost in the third act. When you focus more on the it, on the, on the whole side-

Y. M. Nelson: It’s very lost.

Marcie: That’s, thank you. That makes more sense that that’s where every

Y. M. Nelson: Exactly.

Marcie: Okay. Yes.

Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Okay. All my questions are now answered. Okay. And two,

Perry Constantine: That’s why I’m here.

Y. M. Nelson: It. Yes. That’s why, that is why you’re here, Perry. Let’s be honest. That is why you’re here.

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[00:36:55] One more thing about The Eternals

Y. M. Nelson: And two, it makes because- I will say this about the Eternals, all right?

Because everybody’s dogged, the eternals, everybody’s talked crap about ’em. I did not like that movie. It does not mean that I did not like the whole story around it and some of those characters, the characters in the eternals-

You know what I think? I really think that The Eternals probably would’ve benefited from,

a limited series, kind of like a WandaVision kind of thing, where we could actually see the characters. Because some of the eternals are really, they’re, they’re Marvel Gold, you know? They’re sarcastic funny. They have back stories. Some of the actors that are playing them, I mean, you know, they’re doing a good job here. We would love to have seen this a little bit more.

But the thing is, you’ve probably got, I am gonna say three people, if I remember correctly, who have any type of name recognition. Maybe two who have any type of name recognition in The Eternals as [celebrities]*. So, you’re focusing on them when actually some of the other characters were just so much more interesting in The Eternals.

And I really just, I feel like to endear us to the characters, they probably should have given them a limited series, like a Falcon in the Winter Soldier kind of thing, instead of giving them this one huge movie that we were trying to follow all these people and we’re trying to follow this story, and not all of us are like Perry and read the comics and know who these characters are to begin with.

And as you realize it, after I, after I finished watching Eternals, I realized, you know what? And at that point I actually, I had been through the Marvel traveling, museum exhibit that they have going all over the world. And there’s a section in there about eternals. And you’re looking at it and you’re like, wow. We really need to know more about these characters, especially if they’re connecting all the other stories, or they could be connecting all the other stories.

I don’t know, I don’t read the comics, but it seems like these are characters that could kind of connect all the other stories that we know. They can connect the X-Men to us, they can connect the Avengers, they can connect all the Guardians of the Galaxy. You know, they connect all the other characters in this Marvel universe because they are The Eternals.

Maybe they do that in the comics, I dunno. But it seems like there was so much more potential there for somebody who doesn’t read the comics. And instead, you gave them this big, long movie with this thing coming out of the earth that we don’t exactly all understand. Marcie?

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[00:40:00] Joaquin as the new Falcon – a missed opportunity

Marcie: Speaking of potential.

I really felt like we lost a lot because we didn’t get to see as much of Joaquin as the new, as the Falcon Apprentice. Like, yes. I’m wondering if there’s some more scenes of him on the cutting room floor as well, because I feel like that was something else that needed to be further in this story where it made sense to further it.

Where we didn’t get to see as much. I feel like what I saw of him I really liked, but I had really. But I, I feel like there was room.

And maybe to your point earlier Perry, that because there wasn’t as much about the Serpent Society, then maybe that’s a lot of where the rest of his interaction with the story would have been.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah.

Marcie: But I think there was another place where I feel like there was a missed opportunity for

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

Marcie: A character’s evolution in, in a way that was missed in the storytelling. I mean, what we saw was great, but it was really just snippets, and they were really fast. There were part, they were all in the fast parts where you didn’t really get the, yeah. I feel like there was a best opportunity there when you’re talking about what could have been.

Maybe should have been. I think he was also a missed opportunity in that same space. Deferred to show some, some stretch.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. And could also elaborate more specifically on the Captain America story. Right. Because Captain America starts off as he’s Falcon before that. Right. You know?

Marcie: Mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: Staci, what are you thinking about all of this discussion and about tie- in and everything?

Staci: Well, the top, well about, like I said, the characters that should have had to me more screen time because when I was first watching it, and I was like, okay, “I gotta watch this movie for Yvonne ’cause I’m be on the podcast.”

And then I see Esposito, see him and he’s one of my favorite actors. And I was like, oh yes. And then it’s like, that was it. Yes. That was all that he’s there for. And I was like, that’s a waste.

I love to see him on screen, and I love to see, you know, and I was like, that’s all you’re using him for? I mean, I was just really disappointed in that.

And then now that Perry said all the stuff about of what it, what we possibly think, it should have been more of Serpentine Society and all that. If that was in there, I could see why he would be a bigger character.

But at the same time, I see why they might- certain test audiences might not have liked it because you have a Black Captain America and then you have him [Giancarlo] as a villain.

And they would be like, this is supposed to be with the new Wakanda… I’m, I’m just saying that people may have thought- that certain people have thought that, and that’s why I, they may have changed it a bit because of that.

Perry Constantine: It’s a possibility. Yeah.

Staci: But to me, I think that might have been the cause of it, if that you’re saying all that because. I just really didn’t see, like you said, the Red Hulk as being something major in it, and I thought that would’ve been to me more of a, one of the, they do the, you know, the credits and you have the scene and you see him, that to me would’ve been all Red Hulk. Could have been because he didn’t do anything really. Right.

But if you focus more on the other end but it’d been, yeah, we focus on the other.

It would’ve been to me, a real Captain America movie about in the brave new world there, if it really focused on the new Captain America, and then we had that Serpent Society, and the specialty got more of Giancarlo on the phone, on the, on the phone, on the, on the, on the screen. On the show. On the screen, yeah. I would love that a long time. But I think that’ve been a be, that’d been a different type of movie. Yeah.

And I do wonder now what, how, what, what was cut. And, but I think because of what’s going on and- just how people throw or throw fits for anything that, you know, for like the Marvels and then the new Captain America and all that. I think they changed a lot because probably possibly for that, I can’t say for certain or anything like that.

But now you said that, I’m like, okay, that might be the reason why they changed a lot, but so mm-hmm.

Y. M. Nelson: We will continue this discussion on our next episode. Make sure you’re subscribed to Nerdy Romantics Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, and visit nerdyromanticspodcast.com to subscribe to our newsletter, where you can get show notes directly in your inbox. Thank you for listening.

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