Movie posters of Spiderman: Across the Spider-verse, The Marvels, Guardians of the Galaxy: Volume 3, and Antman and The Wasp: Quantumania over blue and white geometric shaped on a pink background. Bottom right is Y. M. Nelson's Nerdy Romantics Podcast logo, and text on the bottom says "2023 Superhero Movie Review."

2023 Superhero Movie Recap – Marvel

As we move into the 2024 summer movie season, host Y. M. Nelson and Perry Constantine of Superhero Cinephiles podcast talk about the Marvel movies that came out in 2023. The year marked the first phase post Endgame for Marvel.

Check out what we think you should watch (or re-watch), what you should skip, and how controversy outside of the movies themselves affected (or may affect) where these franchises go in the future.

For the millions who’ve already got tickets to Deadpool and Wolverine, hear what we have to say about the real first appearance of an X-man in the MCU.

Meet this episode’s co-host

Perry Constantine

I’ve been working in publishing since 2005 in various capacities—author, editor, formatter, letterer—and I’ve written books, short stories, comics, and more. My novels have spanned different genres, from urban fantasy (Luther Cross), superhero (Vanguard), mystery (Nakamura Detective Agency), pulp adventure (The Myth Hunter), and more. 

I currently live in Japan’s Kagoshima prefecture, where I teach college and university courses . Besides my writing and teaching work, I also host Japan On Film, a podcast dedicated to Japanese movies, and Superhero Cinephiles, a podcast about superhero films.

Books/graphic novels mentioned on the podcast:

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Y. M. Nelson: Howdy, Nerdy Romantics! Well, we are here at part two of our 2023 superhero movie review. And in this part, we are talking Marvel superhero movies. So we are going to start off with Antman  and the Wasp: Quantumania. We’ll also talk about Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. We’ll talk The Marvels and we’re going to talk Spiderman: Across The Spiderverse 

Spoiler alert! {alarm} We will spoil all of the aforementioned movies, and we might spoil a couple of comic book storylines as well. So, if you haven’t watched Spiderman: Across the Spiderverse, The Marvels, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, or Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, and Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania, then turn us off, go watch these wonderful movies and come back and join us for the discussion.

This is the Nerdy Romantics Podcast, and I’m your host Y. M. Nelson.

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Marvel Phase Status

[00:01:01] Y. M. Nelson: So Perry, Perry is, with us from Superhero Cinephiles podcast and Perry we’ve been talking a lot about DC movies and the DCEU, and how that- I guess that phase is over and they’re redoing things. But for Marvel, they’re in, are, are they in the middle of a phase now? They have so many different, I think 

[00:01:33] Perry C.: Yeah, so I can’t remember the exact cutoff, but phase 3, I believe that ended with Spiderman Far From Home.

And then, after that, which was also post Endgame, so Far From Home was kind of like the epilogue to Endgame. And after that, they had phase 4, and I think I’m not sure if they’re still in phase 4 or if they’ve moved into phase 5 yet. I’m not, not 100 percent certain. But right now it is what’s called, so like all the first three phases were called the Infinity Saga.

Now we’re in the Multiverse Saga. So they’re dealing a lot more with multiverse type stuff in this iteration of the MCU. 

[00:02:13] Y. M. Nelson: Right, which is why we kind of saw Dr. Strange doing a multiverse thing and the 

[00:02:20] Perry C.: Multiverse of Madness. Yeah. 

[00:02:21] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. And you know, we’re seeing a lot of other things come about and we’ve got 

[00:02:26] Perry C.: Deadpool and Wolverine this summer, which deals a lot with the multiverse stuff.

Loki, the TV show, dealt a lot with it too. Oh, 

[00:02:33] Y. M. Nelson: Loki. We’re going to talk some about that, y’all. Because we’re going to talk about it right 

[00:02:38] Perry C.: now. We got some hints about it in the post credits scene of The Marvels as well, which I’m looking forward to talking about that scene, too. 

[00:02:45] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, yes, yes, definitely that.

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Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania

[00:02:47] Y. M. Nelson: And and it’s, and it’s funny, too, that we’re, we’re talking about Loki and we’re talking about, and we’re starting off with Antman  and the Wasp Quantumania because obviously, spoiler alert here, spoiler alert the The Antman  and The Antman  and the Wasp Quantumania and Loki Season 2, I knew were connected.

I saw Loki Season 2 first. So, because I saw Loki Season 2 first, I was like, This has to be connected in some way because I because when I saw Loki Season 2, Antman and the Wasp Quantumania had already come out and, you know that was already on my to be watched list, but I just hadn’t gotten around to it.

And I was like, now, which one of these came first? It was kind of like chicken or the egg kind of feeling that I got when I first started watching Antman  and the Wasp Quantumania. But for some reason, I put down Antman is first. So I don’t know how I came up with that. But but you really can see the whole multiverse and holding the multiverse together.

And for me, as you know, somebody who, you know, I started off y’all, I started off with superheroes and specifically with Marvel superheroes. I started off basically watching X-Men on TV X-Men comic on TV. And so you know hearing multiverse with DC makes sense, but hearing multiverse with Marvel is kind of a new concept for me.

[00:04:34] Perry C.: Yeah. Marvel has traditionally been a lot. So the whole idea of the multiverse in DC kind of started out as a an accident actually, because, you know, back in the, back in the golden age of comics, they weren’t really. They didn’t really care about continuity. Nobody expected these comics to, you know, be even for people to even care about these comics, you know, three months from now, let alone 60 years from now.

So they were all just kind of disposable entertainment. So, you know, they had, Green Lantern and the Flash and Superman and Batman and all these characters back in the, in the forties and the fifties, but it wasn’t, but then, you know, superheroes kind of died out the popularity waned in the fifties and then then there was an attempt to.

Revitalize the genre in the late fifties, early sixties, which became the start of the silver age. And they did this with The Flash by completely rebooting it. So it was different costume, different origin, different character. Everything was brand new about it. Right. That was where they introduced Barry Allen came in was the second class actually after Jay Garrick.

[00:05:38] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. And then 

[00:05:39] Perry C.: Hal Jordan came in after Alan Scott. And again, with, and with, with Green Lantern. They had even taken it even a further departure from the original one. And then, and then they had Superman and Batman. So back in the golden age, they had Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman as part of the Justice Society of America.

And then in the 1960s, they launched the Justice League of America, which had Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, but also the new Flash and the new Green Lantern. So then there was kind of like this idea is like, wait, we’ve got. Justice Society over here. We’ve got Justice League over here. And they decided to do this story called The Flash of Two Worlds.

And that introduced this idea that there are two Earths. So there’s Earth 1 is where the, the mod, then the modern versions of the characters were. Earth 2 was where the World War II Golden Age versions of the characters were. So, and so that was kind of how the multiverse came to be. Whereas when Marvel started in the 1960s, Dan Lee’s whole thing was He wanted it to all be connected right from the start.

So in the first issue of Spiderman, he goes to try and join the Fantastic Four because you’re a new superhero. What are you going to do? You want to try and join the Fantastic Four and get paid, right? So it was very much steeped in continuity. And though Marvel has, has definitely has multiverse stuff too, like that really kind of kicked into the gear.

I think probably about the 1980s is when it really kind of kicked into gear. It’s never been as Tied into the main continuity kind of in the same way that DC has been there have been different things here and there but it hasn’t been as big of a focus in mainstream continuity until much more recently and then it was like in the 90s you had like the age of apocalypse you had characters crossing back and forth from that version of reality and and now we’re starting to see more of it right you had the spider verse you had those characters crossing in and out into the main universe so it’s all that kind of stuff Is really started really kind of like in the past like maybe 20 years or so is when that had really started coming to focus 

[00:07:37] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, okay.

Yeah So yeah, I mean this whole concept is yeah, that’s why this whole concept feels New to me on on the marvel side and yeah now that you you know and I I was also kind of thinking of You know, as you were saying, I was thinking of like X-Men Days Of Future Past. That was even kind of a diversion kind of thing for me.

Like when that happened and they did kind of a reboot kind of thing there, I didn’t realize that was actually, they did the reboot because there, there was a new comic line that I didn’t realize that. I thought they were doing a reboot like movie wise, but yeah. So that’s kind of. How I kind of first saw that happening, but now seeing this multiverse thing, I’m like, I’m kind of intrigued.

But with Antman And The Wasp Quantumania you know, you, you kind of see it. You kind of see it well, you saw it with Dr strange, but, you know, it’s kind of really on display here and I guess. It could, I guess. Being that they’re in the quantum realm and, you know, it’s Antman , you know, you can really explore that a little bit more here and get people kind of okay with it, I guess versus like Dr. Strange, Dr. Strange and yeah, that one was a little bit unsettling for me. I don’t know. But but, you know, I’ll probably say, you know, I’ll probably say with Dr. Strange, that character is not one that is That is familiar to me before the MCU and before all of this. So I don’t have all the lore there for, for Dr. Strange, but that, I don’t know, that was a weird take on it. Whereas, or a disturbing take on the kind of multiverse kind of thing. 

Whereas, this one was Antman and the Wasp Quantumania I mean, first of all, you got Paul Rudd being Paul Rudd. You’ve got the laughter, you’ve got the funny there, but you’ve also got, you know, his daughter who’s secretly, you know, got her own Antman  suit and you got family dynamics going on there.

You have, you know and, and, you know, you have other, like, society things going on in the quantum realm. It almost felt to me like, once they were in the quantum realm, and once they were, you know, once you kind of realize, oh, this is where they are, and they’re actual beings down here, it felt very Star Wars to me.

[00:10:25] Perry C.: Mm hmm. 

[00:10:27] Y. M. Nelson: And Yeah, 

[00:10:28] Perry C.: and Yeah. 

[00:10:28] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:10:30] Perry C.: And that’s kind of, this is, this is, comes from the comics in there was a comic book called Micronauts and it was based on like a toy line, I think it was. And it was this idea that they come from the microverse, this like miniature subatomic universe. And that had become kind of a mainstay in the Marvel comics.

They couldn’t use the term microverse. So, and then now it’s quantum realm instead in, in these movies here. Okay. So that’s kind of where that whole idea comes from. Yeah, I, I’m actually more partial to Dr. Strange myself, but I’m much more of a horror guy than a, than a romance family drama type guy. So so Dr. Strange was a little bit more in my, my wheelhouse compared to you. 

[00:11:09] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. That, all right. That’s a taste thing. Yeah. Okay. I’m totally cool with that. Yes. Yeah. And it very much was more in that realm, which is probably why I was like a little bit taken aback because I’m not a horror person yet.

[00:11:23] Perry C.: Yeah, yeah. And Quantumania, I mean, I, this is a movie that, like, a lot of people blasted. A lot of people hated this movie. Yeah, yeah. I don’t hate it. It’s my least favorite of the Antman  movies though, and those are ranked basically in order of release. Like, I think the first one is still the best, the second one’s a lot of fun, but it doesn’t quite live up to the same high as the first one.

And, and then the third one, you know, it kind of falls down a little bit more my list on here. One of the things I do think was cool about it is I love that they took these big swings, right? It’s just like, we are going to go full out, wacky, Jack Kirby, comic book science-y weirdness here. And I like that it took those big swings with it.

I thought that part of it, I’m like, okay, cool. It, we’re done with, cause I am, as much as I liked The Batman the Matt, Matt Reeves/Pattinson movie. I, One of the things is I am just, I’m just so over the whole idea of like, we have to have superheroes grounded in the real world. I mean, like these, these things are based on, I mean, these based on, you know, wacky sci fi comic books, it’s, it’s supposed to be this kind of like weird, weird shit all around the place.

So I think it’s, I think it’s very cool that Marvel’s just like, yeah, we’re going to go wacky Jack Kirby sciency with it. And I thought maybe they, did they take it a little bit, maybe a step too far? Maybe I, I, it’s, that’s a, there’s a definite argument to be made there, but I admire them for taking that shot to begin with.

[00:12:56] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, I, I’m gonna have to agree with you on that. I love the weird sci-fi thing, and then maybe that’s why I was like, oh, I’m getting a Star Wars vibe, and oh, I’m leaning in a little closer to the tv. As I’m watching, you know, because they’re doing that, they’re doing this wackiness. And, you know, we have these suits and we’ve got all this, yes, there is a lot of sci fi going on here. This is very much sci fi going on here. And I loved all of it. I loved all of it.

And, you know, the first thing, I think the first thing I wrote of that is Oh, gosh. I wrote The Ooze exclamation mark equals universal translator equals getting a Star Trek feel right now. I was like, the Ooze is a universal translator.

You know, although it’s funnier, it’s funnier than it is in Star Trek because they got to drink the ooze. And then the Ooze. And I love that The Ooze kept talking about holes, you’ve got holes. How many holes do you have? And you know, of course he says, how many, or it says, how many holes do you have? And you know, the first thing that you’re doing is you’re thinking, oh, well, there’s my ears and then there’s my nose. And then 

[00:14:16] Perry C.: I did that. Yes, I definitely did that. 

[00:14:21] Y. M. Nelson: I totally was counting it. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so crazy. Oh gosh. But but yeah, that was, you know, I will say I didn’t write a lot of notes. A lot of notes here about this. Oh, The Ooze is called VEB. VEB. 

[00:14:39] Perry C.: Yes. and it’s, and voiced by David Dastmalchian, who played the, the Russian guy in the previous two Antman  movies.

And he was also Polka Dot Man in The Suicide Squad. Yeah. Wow! Yeah, and he was also on the Flash TV show, too. He played I think he played Abracadabra on the Flash TV show. Oh, 

[00:14:57] Y. M. Nelson: okay, yeah. Oh my gosh! He’s done a lot I 

[00:15:00] Perry C.: think he’s also done voices in like some of the animated superhero stuff, too. So he’s done a lot of superhero work.

[00:15:05] Y. M. Nelson: So that is very much like Star Trek. You just see them occur. Oh yeah. They’re on this one and then they’re on that one. So the, yeah. We’re seeing that 

[00:15:14] Perry C.: now, we’re seeing that now as Marvel keeps getting bigger and bigger. Like you had Gemma Chan, she played Minerva in Captain Marvel and then she played Cersei in Eternals.

Mahershala Ali, he was Cottonmouth in the first season of Luke Cage. Now he’s going to be Blade in that upcoming movie. And yeah. There’s another one that was announced recently, I’m blanking on it, but but it was, it was also like a, a recasting too. 

[00:15:36] Y. M. Nelson: He’s also, yeah, yeah, and Mark. 

[00:15:37] Perry C.: Oh, Ebon Moss, Ebon Moss- I can’t remember his last name, [Bachrach] but he, he played- he was Microchip in the first season of The Punisher.

Now he’s going to be The Thing in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie. 

[00:15:47] Y. M. Nelson: Oh wow, he is? Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh! But yeah, Marsha- Mahershala Ali yeah, he’s also in Spiderverse. 

Perry C.: He is Yes, you’re right, he does the voice of the Prowler, yes.

Y. M. Nelson: Yes, exactly. So, yeah. I I just think this is all just, like, so awesomely cool.

But yeah. You know, the thing that, of course, again, the thing here that I liked about Antman and the Wasp, obviously, I like, I like that. It’s not okay. We’re just here to fight the bad guy. There’s a lot of other stuff going on and, that’s why I don’t have a lot of notes here for this because I just sat back and I just watched.

So you’re watching, you know this family interact. You’re getting all the funny, you know from not just Paul Rudd here You know, you’re getting funny from a lot of different places.

I love the fact that Michelle Pfeiffer’s character, when she gets into the Quantum Realm, like, everybody knows who she is, and she’s just, you know, walking around, and she just reminded me so much of, No, she was just giving me the Mandalorian feel like, you know, how, like when a Mandalorian walks into a town, everybody knows who the Mandalorian or knows who a Mandalorian, right.

They know what, who, what man, right. 

[00:17:10] Perry C.: They know what that armor means. 

[00:17:12] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, exactly. It’s like, you know, and she’s just, she’s just so giving that, you know, in, in, in this, you know, it it was really neat. And I think one of the 

[00:17:22] Perry C.: Sorry, go ahead. 

[00:17:22] Y. M. Nelson: Go, no, you could, you go ahead. What were you gonna say? 

[00:17:25] Perry C.: I was gonna say, I think one of the biggest failings of this movie is that I think it’s trying to do too much.

Because you know, I think It is trying to do 

[00:17:31] Y. M. Nelson: a lot. 

[00:17:31] Perry C.: You are absolutely right about Michelle Pfeiffer. I think she is the unsung MVP of this movie and I think a big reason why She gets kind of overshadowed is just with like so much stuff happening in this movie And I think they they they really should have they kind of lost focus when they’re when they’re making I think I think there was I think I actually think you could have done without Kang in this movie at all I think you could have done with I don’t think you needed him in this movie and I think And while it was funny to see Corey Stolbeck, I don’t think that was the best use of the MODOK character either.

[00:18:02] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, I was going to say something about the MODOK character. I was like, he just seems so superfluous. And I was also trying to remember him from the first Antman , you know, so half of the movie, I’m trying to remember him from another movie, you know, and because his face is distorted and even though they do show, you know, a flashback of him from the other movie, I’m still trying to get the whole presence of who he was because he’s actually not that dude anymore.

Yeah, really? Because you could tell he’s going through some kind of emotional crisis kind of thing. And no, it was just, yeah, you’re right. It was a lot going on here. And I guess that’s also part of the reason why I didn’t write a lot of stuff down because you have to look at it and follow it. It’s, it’s, it’s a lot to follow.


[00:18:57] Perry C.: you’ve got the story with, with Scott and, and Cassie over in this side. And then you have the story with Hank and Jan and Hope on the other side, and it’s just like, and then you got the whole Kang stuff going. It’s just, there are way too many moving parts in it and it just kind of loses focus.

And I think, yeah, I think the better thing would have done is I like the idea of bringing Corey Stoll back, but maybe not as MODOK, but maybe have him as the villain of this movie. And then. That would thematically tie it back to the first one, connect the other two in a much better way. And, you know, and, you know, and I know you said we’re not going to talk about Jonathan Major’s legal issues, but I will say, I thought he did a great job though, as Kang, and I wish we could have seen more of him.

I understand why we can’t, and I totally respect that decision, but it is, it is kind of a disappointment that we didn’t quite get to see what could have come of that. 

[00:19:52] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I, I, I’m going to break my own, whatever I said and say about Jonathan Majors is he was good in this and he was good on Loki season two.

And even in 

[00:20:09] Perry C.: that last episode of season one, I thought he was wonderful. 

[00:20:12] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yes, totally. I’m like, he’s good with this and. In my opinion, if you’re going to keep somebody, even though these are two separate, I get this, these are two separate studios, right? But if you’re going to keep somebody, it would not be Ezra Miller in my opinion. It would be Jonathan Majors, but they’ve kept Ezra Miller on that side, and they have let Jonathan Majors go. On this side, according to the latest news, right? He’s not going to be doing this anymore. But and I, I’m like, that is a waste. That is a waste. That’s all I’m going to say. That’s just, I don’t know.

It’s just, to me, it’s like, okay, what multiverse am I in where this is messed up like this? This is the, I’m in the wrong universe. I need to get in the, get in a different universe because- 

[00:21:20] Perry C.: I mean, I think the, honestly, I think the, the decision is to get rid of both of them personally is what I would say, but that’s, that’s me.

But anyway but yeah, I thought, I feel like this was not the right movie to Jonathan, major stuff aside, I just think conceptually, this is not the best movie to introduce Kang. Like, I think there’s better ways to introduce this version of Kang than what we did here. 

[00:21:45] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, and I’m gonna agree with you on that because To me, his story actually feels like a side story.

He’s almost like a plot device for why everybody knows Michelle Pfeiffer. He’s just a plot device. And I’m like, well, you know, they can be in the quantum realm and go in the quantum realm and you could even have MODOK have, you know, something bad happened, you know, cause he’s down there or whatever, and, and it not even have to do with, with Kang and with getting, you know, with, with that, with that whole thing. 

[00:22:27] Perry C.: Well, because also time works so differently in the quantum realm, you could have easily had, you know, Corey Stoll’s character Darren Cross, you could have had him be the one who hooks up with with Jan early on instead of Kang instead.

And then that would create some very interesting ideas because, you know, She knew him back then and everyone else is like, wait, how do you, it would have, it would have been with the whole wacky time aspect of the quantum realm. 

[00:22:53] Y. M. Nelson: It would. Yes. That actually does make sense. But you know, even then, you know, and this is because they introduced all these characters, all these people that were talking, all these people were talking roles, but even Bill Murray’s character, she had some kind of history with him.

I mean, We didn’t even need Kay, cause she’s had history with two, with, with people that they could have, you know, they could have made this cast smaller, you know, exactly. Yes. But I feel like, and I think that’s why I said Antman  is first. I said, which came first Antman  two or Antman  two. It’s not Antman  two.

Antman  and the, and the Wasp Quantumania or Loki season two. And. I think a reason why I said Antman was first is because I think this was really just a build up to what Kang was doing in Loki

[00:23:51] Perry C.: It was, yeah. Like the, the end of Loki season one, that was kind of like the introduction to the very first glimpse we got of Kang, which was a future version He Who Remains.

And then Quantumania was supposed to introduce the The variant of Kang, the evil version, that’s the one who’s gonna be the villain of the multiverse saga. And then, Loki season 2 dealt with this earlier version of him as what was it, Victor Timely, I think was his name or something like that. Yes, 

[00:24:20] Y. M. Nelson: yeah, 

[00:24:20] Perry C.: Victor something, yeah. Which in fact, Timely, that’s, that was the original name of Marvel Comics. 

Y. M. Nelson: Really? 

Perry C.: Yes. Yeah. 

[00:24:27] Y. M. Nelson: I totally didn’t know that. I’ll learn something new. Well, I always learn something new when I talk to you, Perry. 

[00:24:32] Perry C.: I have, I have so much useless knowledge of comic books and superheroes in my head, and there’s no room for anything else.

[00:24:40] Y. M. Nelson: But it’s so fun! 

[00:24:42] Perry C.: Meanwhile, I can’t remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. 

[00:24:45] Y. M. Nelson: Well me neither, so it doesn’t matter. Just as long as we ate, see, we’re still here. So we obviously ate something, but but yeah, I, I think for this one you know, I, I’m, I’m with you on a lot of these, I love the sci fi aspects and the, you know, Basically ramping up the whole sci fi aspect of this and the wacky of it.

It was cool I will say this. I think ant man and the wasp quantum mania was the first one that I ended up watching on disney plus when I watched all of these and I think I said in my mini review my tv had to reset itself Cause it needed to be in like HD deep color or something wild. And I will say that this is probably one that I really wish that I had watched in the theater because I think the cinematography would have been wild.

Really amazing in the theater. 

[00:25:49] Perry C.: I did watch this in the theater and yeah, it was really good. I also want to say, you know, Catherine Newton, she took over as Cassie from the actress who played her in in Endgame. I liked her as Cassie in this as well. And I know you’re not a horror fan, but she was in but we were talking about, you know, bodies, characters in different bodies and stuff like that.

When we were talking about Shazam she was in a movie called a horror comedy called Freaky, which is. Which, with Vince Vaughn, where basically it’s a teenage girl, it’s a version, it’s a spin on Freaky Friday, where instead of a mother and daughter swapping bodies, it’s a teenage girl and a serial killer swapping bodies.

So you’ve got her, yes, and it’s her and Vince Vaughn. So they’re the ones who swap bodies. So you’ve got Vince Vaughn acting like a teenage girl and Katherine Newton acting like a, a Stone Cold serial killer. And it’s really good. Yeah. 

[00:26:40] Y. M. Nelson: Is that, is there any way that that’s even a little funny? Because that is funny to me.

[00:26:47] Perry C.: It’s very much, it’s, it’s very much got funny aspects to it. It’s, it’s, it’s I think it’s the same people who did happy death day, which is very much like a comedy horror movie. So yeah, 

[00:26:55] Y. M. Nelson: yeah. One of those, and like Shaun of the Dead and all those. 

[00:26:58] Perry C.: Sean of the dead. Yeah. Not quite as Sean of the dead leans more into parody than, than horror, but, but it’s more like along the lines of totally killer was like this.

Okay. Happy death day. It’s, it’s very much in those veins kind of scream adjacent, but a little bit funnier than screen. 

[00:27:16] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. 

[00:27:17] Perry C.: All right. Got you. 

[00:27:18] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. And I’ve watched screen, so I’m, I’m good there, but but yeah, this is You know, this has all of those little things that little nerd out things that I liked in it, but I’m also with you on the fact that it’s a little bit too much, you know, the quantum realm is packed and they need to empty some of that out.

Yeah. So what is your rating for this one? I can’t remember. 

[00:27:48] Perry C.: I think I would probably give this a three, maybe? Yeah, I think maybe a three is what I’m giving this, because it’s just, it, there’s some interesting stuff in there, and there’s some good performances, but it’s just, it’s just way too overstuffed.

I mean, the fact that it’s called Antman  and the Wasp, and we see almost no wasp in this, I think is a huge failing. 

[00:28:07] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

[00:28:08] Perry C.: Like, we haven’t even talked about Evangeline Lilly because she’s barely in the damn thing. 

[00:28:11] Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. That’s right. You’re, you’re totally right about that. And you know, and the part that, you know, that she is in it, it’s, it’s kind of like Okay, but why do we need you again?

You know, she was like in one, you know, she’s in one fight scene and she had to actually come back through the The portal to be in that fight scene and it’s like, I don’t know. It’s You’re right. It’s ant man and the wasp, but we don’t really see the wasp I think 

[00:28:41] Perry C.: both this movie and the doctor strange sequel, they both have the same problem in that it’s got this You title card for it where it’s Antman  and the Wasp: Quantumania, and it’s Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

But in those, both those cases, like, you compare it to something like, I think Captain America: Civil War is a good comparison. Because even though that is like this big ensemble movie, it’s got all these different characters, it is still at its heart a Captain America movie. It’s still, Captain America still drives the story, it’s still all about his character, his journey, and, and the, the Avenger stuff is connected to that, but it’s tangential to what his journey is like, if you took out the the, the, the Avengers stuff in that movie, it would still fit together pretty well.

But whereas- But Doctor Strange and Quantumania, they. I don’t think they should have had those names at the top. It should have just been like, If you just called that Doctor Strange movie, Multiverse of Madness, it would have, I think it would have played a lot better. Same thing with this, If you just called this, Quantumania, I think it would have played a lot better that way.

But, because there are these character titles at the top, We have an expectation that these characters are going to be the ones who are, 

[00:29:55] Y. M. Nelson: Right. 

[00:29:55] Perry C.: The central force of the movies. And in both of them, it doesn’t really feel like they are. 

[00:30:00] Y. M. Nelson: Exactly. And, you know, and now that you mention that, now that you mention that, you know, the thing about Antman  and the, the first Antman  and then Antman  and the Wasp, we see Antman  evolve.

You know, we see Antman  first, you know, we see him evolve from being a criminal to Antman , but then we, in Antman and the Wasp, we see him you know, evolve with his powers. And here, he is Is he doing something different? I don’t even really, you know, you don’t really see anything. What you see different is that his daughter now has an Antman  suit.

Right. Yeah. So we don’t really see him evolve. So it’s not really about, and we don’t see anybody really trying to We don’t see anybody really trying to get his powers or really trying to come after him or anything like that So it’s really not about him 

[00:31:08] Perry C.: We also don’t have any of the the The non superhero characters that we had in the first two movies like some of the best scenes in those first two movies were With like, you know his crew or like his his his ex wife and her husband.

[00:31:21] Y. M. Nelson: Oh my gosh, the guy that drove the van!

[00:31:23] Perry C.: Yes! 

[00:31:24] Y. M. Nelson: I love him! 

[00:31:27] Perry C.: Yeah, we get no, we get no Luis in this. We, we don’t get any of You know, Judy Greer is not back in this either. So I think we’ve definitely lost something when we don’t have those human characters to anchor. And I think this is, this is one of the, taking it back to the discussions that we had about the later seasons of The Flash.

I think one of the things that kind of hurt that show is when everybody ended up becoming a superhero. So by the, by the end, you have no human connection, really. 

[00:31:53] Y. M. Nelson: Right, exactly. Everybody’s a little, and, and two, because everybody is really. You know, sci-fi’d up here, I mean, we have actual, like, beings that are not even really, we wouldn’t, we would barely call them humanoid, right?

Right, exactly. So, it’s like, you’re trying to make a human connection here, but the only people that are like human humans are charged up in some way. 

[00:32:21] Perry C.: Right, I mean, the only real human character in this is Hank Pym, when you think about it. 

[00:32:27] Y. M. Nelson: Right!

[00:32:28] Perry C.: He developed the admin technology. So, yeah, I mean, exactly. Yeah.


[00:32:31] Y. M. Nelson: he’s yeah, he’s, he’s the one that developed the technology, but then also he’s kind of being sidelined. I mean, he’s even been sidelined by his wife, especially when the Bill Murray character comes along and you know or the character that Bill Murray plays, I should say comes along and it’s like, he is, you know, he’s really being sidelined.

He is, you know, But 

[00:32:56] Perry C.: yeah, and that’s what killed me because I thought the family dynamic they present at the beginning of the movie where Cassie had spent five years growing up with, you know, Hank and Jan as her aunt and uncle. And you know, Scott has missed all that time. Like that’s, Right opportunity to explore that stuff then exactly those relationships and it’s just and we get hints of that at the beginning but then it just once they get into the quantum realm stuff it’s just all sidelined yeah 

[00:33:21] Y. M. Nelson: exactly exactly it’s it’s totally over so yeah I think that I gave this one a four i am not exactly sure if that’s what I gave it but if that’s what I gave it that’s what i’ll give it But I will say this out of all the Marvel movies that we’re talking about today.

This was my I I’m gonna say this was my least favorite 

[00:33:48] Perry C.: I I agree with that. Yeah, definitely. This is my least favorite, too. 

back to top

Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3

[00:33:51] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, but one of the ones that was really my- this wasn’t my most favorite, but this was very close to my most favorite is Guardians Of The Galaxy Volume 3 

[00:34:03] Perry C.: See, Guardians, this one was my favorite.

This one is, you know, five stars all the way from me. I’d give it, I’d give it ten stars if I could. I loved this movie. 

[00:34:13] Y. M. Nelson: Okay, so tell me why we’re getting five stars from this one from you, Perry. 

[00:34:17] Perry C.: Oh my god, this was the perfect summation of that whole trilogy. Like, I, first off, the whole, when they killed off Gamora in Infinity War my original idea was, I’m like, okay, And then at the end of Infinity War, we saw that scene where Thanos, you know, when he snaps the gems, he’s in like the soul gem, he sees young Gamora there, and she asks him if, what he sacrificed, and he says everything and all that.

[00:34:44] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

[00:34:44] Perry C.: My original theory was that that was going to play a part in undoing everything in the Endgame, that that was going to be, there was going to be stuff involving the soul gem, and maybe we were going to get Gamora resurrected as a result of that. 

But we didn’t get that, instead we get, you know, this past version of Gamora from another universe, who comes over, gets stranded in our universe basically, and, and she has no memory of Peter Quill.

She has no memory of that time, and I’ve, yeah, and so then I’m like, okay, I see what they’re going to do when they’re trying to reset the whole Sam and Diane thing that they commented on in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, and I figured that’s kind of what they’re going to do here, and they’re going to find a way for them to come back together. They’re going to find some way for Gamora to get those memories somehow through some contrivance. That’s what I had expected. 

And they didn’t do that. And what they did instead is they told this beautiful story about what it’s like to fall out of love with someone. And they use this superhero metaphor as a way to explain that.

And as someone who has been, has fallen out of love before, who has been through a divorce, and came to a point where we are totally fine with each other, where we evolved to a point where, where we, we don’t hate each other, right? We just don’t love each other anymore. Like to see that played out on screen, I felt like I felt seen in that moment when I saw that scene because that’s, that’s not something you see in movies, ever.

Usually when it’s a, it’s a divorce or something, it’s like, it’s a bitter thing. And maybe if they have kids or something, they have, they come to some sort of, you know, begrudging understanding or something like that, but you don’t see it like this where they fall out of love and they’re okay with it. And I thought this was such a great story because it went through all those emotions that Peter is experiencing and it was all very true to life.

[00:36:34] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. You know, it’s funny that this movie got to you emotionally in that way or connected, you connected emotionally with this movie in that way because I also connected emotionally with this movie. But in a, with a different character, with the whole Rocket character. And I connected 

[00:37:00] Perry C.: with that as well, too.

I definitely want to talk about that as well, but you go first. 

[00:37:04] Y. M. Nelson: But, but yeah, the, the whole, he, he got put in a situation. He found a family in that situation and he loses a family in that situation. And then. And then all of this happening while he is in captivity, that really just, I feel that now. I still feel that.

I mean, it, the, that whole thing, and then the fact that they basically, that he basically kept all of that inside of him, and all of that All of that really, for me, I’ve always thought that the Rocket character, I’ve always thought that he was a just a real, like a curmudgeonly dude in a raccoon, inside of a raccoon.

I mean, he is, he is. snarky. He is sarcastic. He is a jerk and it is just wonderful. And I loved him on that level, but I never really got, I’ve never really, I’ve always seen him as a raccoon character here. He’s just human to me. It humanizes him so much. And I love that. 

[00:38:33] Perry C.: Yes, absolutely. Like Rocket was. So I, I’ve had some familiarity with the guardians from the comics and of all the characters from the comics, Rocket is the most true to who he is in the comics as well.

Like he’s very much the same type of character in the comics and in the movies, but they give him, they do so much more with him in these movies, I think. And I think they, they give him so much more depth that I think he has in the comics, at least. And again, I have very limited experience. I have some familiarity with, with them in the comics, but not as much as other people.

I know But I, I, so he was my favorite character going into this from the comics and then, You know, after watching these movies, like he’s my favorite character of the, of this group in the movies as well. He is just, I mean, Bradley Cooper, it, I, it, it still blows me away. That’s Bradley Cooper. 

[00:39:25] Y. M. Nelson: Right. It’s like, what I can’t, it doesn’t.

Go together in my mind, but even though I know it, but it just doesn’t, I, I can’t make it go together in my mind, but it’s still wonderful. 

[00:39:36] Perry C.: And he does such a great job, especially in this movie. Like he completely sells it. I cried so many times watching this movie and those scenes with like the scene when when Teefs and Floor die, or when Lila, when that scene where Lila sees him before, when he’s about to die, and she tells him, like, you’ve been the hero of the story all along, and I, I’m starting to get choked up just talking about it, just remembering it.

[00:39:58] Y. M. Nelson: I know! I know! It’s just like, oh my god, and I know people are probably like, y’all are crying over, yes! Yes. 

[00:40:06] Perry C.: Yes. Yes. I am crying over a talking raccoon and I don’t give a damn who makes fun of me for it, 

[00:40:11] Y. M. Nelson: right? Exactly. I don’t really even care because it really is that emotional of a story and it, it very much connects.

You, you just, you feel it, you feel it. And you’re right. Bradley Cooper does that. I mean, I think just, yeah. 

[00:40:30] Perry C.: And I think one of the things this movie does is it’s a big, it’s, it’s a perfect counterpoint to the idea that, you know, CGI is destroying movies and all that, because, and I think this movie proves it, that CGI is very effective when it’s used in the right way.

And James Gunn is very careful with how he uses CGI. He understands that you need to use CGI. You can’t do this movie without CGI. It’s not possible. It’s just not. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. 

He understands how to use it. He plans out his shots very carefully. So he knows how to use it. So it’s not just let’s fix it in post type of attitude toward it.

It’s very much like we have to treat this like we’re filming a, a real stunt or something like that, where you only, you have to have it very carefully done because if it’s not executed, right, you can’t get a second try at it. He does that. He has that same approach with CGI. And that’s why I think his movies work so well when you have the CGI stuff and why we have these scenes of these CGI animated characters, and it’s so moving, because he’s very careful about how he uses that, and this, and also, you know I’m probably going to mispronounce his name, but Chukwudi Iwuji, who plays the High Evolutionary. Yeah. Oh my God, he is one of the best villains in any of these Marvel movies. He was unbelievably good.

[00:41:52] Y. M. Nelson: Amazing. 

[00:41:52] Perry C.: Especially because the only thing I knew him before was in Peacemaker where he plays a completely different character. And to see him in this, I was actually very annoyed they killed him off because I want to see him come back. Wow. 

[00:42:03] Y. M. Nelson: You know, when, you know, gosh. There’s just, oh, there’s so much there.

Well, I don’t even know what to say first, but the fact that he’s like, I really need to make this perfect society and the perfect society is human, except for is very human looking, but not human at all. And, And then the perfect society is really not so perfect. There’s homeless people. There’s crime There are people with no jobs.

There are people dealing drugs. I mean And then he’s like, okay, I realize this is not working I’m just gonna wipe this out because I want it to be perfect this guy is on A level of insanity that is just And delusion that is just mesmerizing. I’m like, it’s just, it’s totally amazing, you know? And the, the thing about it is in a lot of these, as you, you know, as you watch a lot more and read a lot more, there are a lot of, you know, for lack of a better word, there are a lot of insane villains.

And the reason why they’re villains is because they’re insane. But this guy has a real delusional, like a layered delusional. This is not Joker delusional. This is layered. I see the world in a way that is different from everybody else. And I need to remake it in some other way. I mean, and yes, the the actor whose name I won’t even try to pronounce [Chukwudi Iwuji] does that brilliantly.

I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s scary. It’s scary. And Yeah, it’s scary because it’s also, you see a little bit of this delusion and yeah, and some people that, yeah, don’t need, don’t need to be voted into anything. 

[00:44:23] Perry C.: Absolutely. I mean, and you know, going back to this movie too, like one of the great things about this is that it really feels like you’re ending all these characters story, but you’re not ending them in a way that is like, you know, a finality.

Right. One of the things I every going. And I, and I blame, I think I blame Game of Thrones a lot for this. And I think one of the things I hate about it is like this idea of, for the ending to have meaning we have to have a bloodbath and all these characters have to be sacrificed. Right? Exactly. And there was, and I was so worried that we were gonna come, come out of this movie with like, you know, half the cast or all the cast or someone dying and you know, yeah.

And there are points when they get close, right? There are definitely points where they get close and James Gunn, I feel like he’s teasing us with it because he knows what we expect. That scene with, with Peter, like he’s freezing in space. It looks like he’s not going to make it. And then all of a sudden we get Adam Warlock comes and he saves him.

And I’m just like, good, good. I’m glad James Gunn said, yeah, I know what you expect. I know you expect there to be some big heroic sacrifice. Fuck you. I’m not doing it. 

[00:45:27] Y. M. Nelson: Right. Exactly. And you know, it, you know, the, the funny thing you mentioned that is because I was talking about, yeah, I need to finish watching this movie because I had started watching, I had started watching it and then you know, when Rocket got hit or whatever, I, I said, no. Yeah. I can’t watch this. I just, I can’t, you know?

And part of it was because I had something else to do. And so I didn’t, I, you know, I really needed to be doing something else actually, you know, like I had something else to do with my time. So I literally did not have the time to watch it. But then at the, the other part of it was, I did not want my emotions to go through seeing Rocket die.

And I was just like, You can’t do this to me. You know, you can’t, you can’t kill off these people. I mean, you’ve already, you know, killed Gamora and then brought Gamora back and it’s like, what? I can’t go through these emotions, you know? So so I turned it off and I was telling a friend about this and I was like, well, it, you know, I was telling a friend, I said, I’m not spoiling anything because I don’t know what happens. I literally said that to her. I don’t know what happens. I just know I’m in, I was all in my feelings and I needed to turn it off, but I’ve now got to finish watching it because I need to know what happens. And that is, and that is really how you feel about this whole thing. You feel, okay, you know, it’s, you know, it’s volume three and it’s, you know, the end of the Guardians Of The Galaxy as we know them, you know, in this iteration.

And so, 

[00:47:16] Perry C.: And James Gunn is now moving over to DC. Right, exactly. 

[00:47:19] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. So, you know, you know, that that’s happening. So you’re right. You do have that kind of. Feeling that, oh gosh, somebody’s going to die, you know, but it, you know, the fact that it doesn’t happen and we still, and until we still feel a finality at the end of this iteration of Guardians Of The Galaxy.

But we also feel like we will see these folks again, even if Marvel doesn’t say at the end of the end credits, we will see StarLord again, even though they did say that they 

[00:47:58] Perry C.: did. Yeah. Yeah. Although, you know, I think that was kind of a joke because the whole idea of calling him the legendary Star Lord while he’s talking about mowing the lawn and stuff.

[00:48:06] Y. M. Nelson: Right? That was hilarious. That was so hilarious. And he’s like, now, why am I going to be mowing along when this guy’s 45 and sitting around? 

[00:48:14] Perry C.: He’s like, I kind of want you to now, 

[00:48:19] Y. M. Nelson: but you know what, even that is real because I, you know, you even have that, those kinds of feelings about neighbors or whatever, it’s like, now, why is such and such mowing the grass?

But then this person went and got somebody to mow their grass. I mean, why can’t they do it themselves? And you know, you know what I think, 

[00:48:41] Perry C.: you know, I think would be brilliant. About this though, is if they do like a Disney+ series of shorts or something called the legendary StarLord. And it’s just Chris Pratt doing like Monday.

I think that would be brilliant. That 

[00:48:54] Y. M. Nelson: would be awesome. I would totally watch that. Oh my God. That would be so awesome. But yeah, it’s so funny, you know, to, to, for that to happen, but, but getting back, it’s like, it’s a finality, but it’s not final. Like, you know, And I was, I was worried about, yeah, I was worried about Chris Pratt’s character that I was worried about Star Lord.

I was like, Oh, Lord, Quill’s not gonna make it. But but, but yeah, 

[00:49:25] Perry C.: we also get the thing with Drax and like the, yeah, this hits me so much more now that I’m a dad, but just that, that scene when, you know Nebula tells him at the end, she’s like, you’re not a destroyer, you’re a dad. And I’m just like, oh my God, that killed me.

That killed me. 

[00:49:38] Y. M. Nelson: I was going to ask. I was like, did that, did that 

[00:49:40] Perry C.: get to you? Absolutely. Same. And we, I forgot to mention it when we talked about Blue Beetle, but still that, that scene with the, with him and his father, like that also killed me. 

[00:49:49] Y. M. Nelson: Like it just, oh my gosh. Yeah. You know what, though you know, you mentioned in that scene in Blue Beetle, you know, I forgot to say this too, I, I felt like you know, even though they’re two different comics.

I felt very much like a Black Panther kind of feel, you know, and like I’m kind of passing the torch, but I’m kind of not passing the torch, you know, right then, but it’s more like, it’s your time to step up now. It’s not your time to leave. It’s your time to step up. And I, and I felt very much, you know, it gave me.

The first Black Panther it gave me those vibes. Well, yeah, same thing. 

[00:50:26] Perry C.:  I think Shang-Chi as well Like I don’t think you get to Shang Chi or Blue Beetle without Black Panther being the first one to walk to take those first steps 

[00:50:32] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly So it’s just it’s very much. It’s interesting how These things but these are themes right?

These are themes and these are you know, kind of Things that, that happen is very interesting how these things play and how they’re repeated, but not repeated how they are reshaped in each of these stories. And and speaking of that, you know, the found family theme is like. To 1000 here as well in guardians of the galaxy, and they are very much found family and very much. Yeah. 

[00:51:14] Perry C.: Also Zoe Saldana is how amazing is her performance in these movies because she She plays this as if it is a completely different character because it is a completely different character, 

[00:51:25] Y. M. Nelson: right? She really did. And, you know, it, and it’s funny, you know, cause when you were saying that about the relationship and I’m, and I’m thinking to myself, that is what, that is how that relationship is playing out between, you know, Gamora and Quill.

It is playing out like a. We divorced, but now we’re on a different, yeah, it does have that feeling to it, but I will say that the relationship that she has with her sister, Nebula, you know how they just do the nod towards each other, but then they’re also slightly, you know, hostile towards each other, very much the first, like, movie.

And I was like, it is so, that is, that’s what, you know, that’s what I found like fascinating when I first watched it, you know, now that you’re saying this about, you know, Quill and, and Gamora and their, and, you know, the way they’re relating, I, I kind of feel that now I did notice that now what really got me more was her relationship between, you know, So.

Or Gamora’s relationship between her and her sister. It was so, it was like first Guardians of the Galaxy. It just, it took you right back there. Yeah. And it’s like, you realize now that this character is not the same. 

[00:52:55] Perry C.: And it’s especially cool because As the character 

[00:52:56] Y. M. Nelson: we’ve gotten to know. 

[00:52:58] Perry C.: Because they both basically like flip positions, because now you’ve got Gamora, who is the heartless mercenary, and you’ve got Nebula, who is the, you know, someone who cares about other people.

It’s like, it’s a complete inversion of that original relationship. And it’s very interesting to see play out, especially because, you know, Karen Gillett as well, an amazing actress in these movies. Oh, 

[00:53:23] Y. M. Nelson: totally. Totally amazing. I’m like, you know, I’ve always had kind of a, well, I’ve always, every time I’ve seen Zoe Saldana, she’s always had that, you know, kind of tough exterior or whatever.

So, you know, her kind of going back to, you know, Or, you know, going back to this previous version of Gamora, I was like, okay, the, you know, she, it made me feel a little bit like, okay, it’s safe, but then it’s like, oh, I kind of missed them together, you know, but then it’s like, okay, this is who we’ve got, because she’s tough.

This is how we do it. You know, she doesn’t, you know, this is, this is what we do, but yeah, it’s just the whole cast. Is just amazing. I mean, it’s just, you know, and you really see it here. I believe I said in my mini review, I said yeah, this was really long and really emotional and I loved it. It was wonderful.

[00:54:28] Perry C.: Well, I think I love that. I love that moment at the end when you know, Groot says, “I love you guys,” that it’s like, it’s, but it’s because we understand him now. We understand what he’s really saying. I thought that was such a great way of showing that. 

[00:54:43] Y. M. Nelson: That was amazing. Yeah. 

[00:54:45] Perry C.: And, you know, and taking it back to the, the quill and Gamora thing, like, you know, you’ve probably known people who’ve said like, you know, when a relationship has ended or something, she’s like, well, it’s like, they’ve become a completely different person.

[00:54:55] Y. M. Nelson: Right. 

[00:54:55] Perry C.: That’s exactly what this is because she literally is a completely different person. Right. 

[00:54:58] Y. M. Nelson: She is. She is a totally different person. And it’s like, Oh, wow. And I don’t really happening, but I’ve 

[00:55:05] Perry C.: never really seen a lot. And I maybe I’m, maybe I’m just not remembering clearly, but I haven’t really seen a lot of like, Sci-fi stuff, explore that aspect in that way. I thought it was so inventive to do it the way they did. 

[00:55:20] Y. M. Nelson: I totally agree with you, but you know what? I don’t, I don’t see, I’m going to say, I don’t see a lot of even drama, do it that way, explore it that way. I mean, this is, you know, This is just on a whole new level. Kind of, we are trying to navigate a new part of our relationship.

[00:55:44] Perry C.: Well, you know, between this, it is making me think of Superman and Lois a lot, because how that uses superheroes to explore this, you know, husband and wife relationship in a way that most superhero stories traditionally don’t, and it doesn’t in a very mature and approaches in a very mature, very adult, I don’t mean adult as in graphic, I mean, adult as in, you know, like, you know, Like, 

[00:56:06] Y. M. Nelson: we, we, we know something about the world. We’re wise. 

Perry C.: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:56:12] Perry C.: And I see Guardians 3 doing the same thing with this relationship with Quill and Gamora. Like, you don’t see that kind of maturity and that kind of complexity in those relationship stories, typically. I think it’s, it’s, it was beautiful for me to see it that way.

[00:56:27] Y. M. Nelson: Well, you know, to be honest, for me, A lot of superhero, or even with, I should say sci fi. I’m going to say more sci fi because I think with some superheroes, you end up seeing various sides of them, but you see them as almost like various, like we see Bruce Wayne and then we see Batman, you know what I’m saying?

So you see, you don’t necessarily see them as a whole person. And I, and for me, And it’s the same way kind of in sci fi you have to or it seems like they’re so focused on giving you Who this person is? Like, giving you what this person represents that they forget that there’s a whole person here, right?

And that whole person has complicated relationships. And just because they’re good, it doesn’t mean they’re good at relating to other people, or it doesn’t mean that they’re good at, I don’t know, relating to other people. Cooking lasagna or whatever, you know, you know what I’m saying? You don’t get to see like whole versions of people.

You get to see slices of personality that represent certain things. 

[00:57:45] Perry C.: Yes. No, I think that’s absolutely true. One of my favorite, and this is going to be a bit tangential, but one of my favorite comic book characters is Cyclops. And one of the reasons is, and a lot of people hate the reason why I like, I love him because, because so in the.

You know, after, in the comic books, after Jean Grey died at the end of Dark Phoenix, he, he mourned for her, and then he eventually met this other woman who had a very strong resemblance to her, Madeline Pryor, and he married her, he had a baby with her, and then Jean comes back from the dead. And he, he, he struggles, he, he goes, he leaves his wife briefly to go see if this is true, if this is real.

[00:58:25] Y. M. Nelson: Right. 

[00:58:25] Perry C.: And he. And he basically makes a mess, and then she ends up getting, you know, presumed dead. Her son gets kidnapped, she ends up getting presumed dead with the other X-Men. It’s a whole thing that happens, she ends up becoming a supervillain. It’s comic book stuff, but, but the thing I loved about it, and, which later comes up when Grant Morrison did, wrote the comic book, is that this whole idea is that, yeah, Cyclops, Was born and raised to be a superhero.

Basically he’s he has, and he, so when it comes to superhero stuff, when it comes to battle strategy and all that, he knows exactly what to do. But when it comes to his personal life, he doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing. Exactly. He’s a total mess. And I think that’s such a great way to handle that character.

[00:59:07] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

[00:59:07] Perry C.: Yeah. 

[00:59:09] Y. M. Nelson: And you know, and you, now I’m not going to say, I’m not going to say this. Is. You know, definite true or, or anything like that. But, you know, I also think that this is also part of kind of the evolution of, you know, how we see ourselves and masculine and feminine and all of that kind of stuff. I think that’s also part of it, showing people as round characters. Um, and, and 2 you know, in. You know, in the romancelandia world, or even in just, even in just the fiction world. 

[00:59:51] Perry C.: Right. 

[00:59:52] Y. M. Nelson: In the, in the pursuit of trying to be or trying to present more diverse characters, racially, ethnically, whatever neurodivergent, whatever present more diverse characters, there is a push for people not to stereotype. 

Perry C.: Right.

And in order not to stereotype, you really have to show whole versions of your characters. Not just one side of this person. Not just the fact that this person Is, you know, a strong Black woman, or this person is, you know you know, somebody who’s Asian and really good at math.

That is a stereotype. You’ve got to go deeper than that and you’ve got to actually show a whole person. And I think, to me, I think that’s happening throughout story. I think that’s Not just story in books, but the stories that we’re seeing on screen. And I think, you know, part of that is kind of bleeding into with the superheroes showing the more, how shall I say, quote unquote, human side of the super, you know?

And so I, you know, I think that’s what, and two, When you start to get fandoms and when people start to realize, and when, you know, Hollywood starts to realize, Hey, this person is hooked on this character, there’s fandoms for characters, there’s also, to me, a push to make that character as round of a character as that character can be so that you can keep selling the movie with this character. Right. Or the story with this character. Like we want to see more. 

[01:01:45] Perry C.: Yes, absolutely. And I think taking it back to going back to Black Panther, I think they did that brilliantly with Killmonger because on paper, you know, you see Killmonger, he’s this guy who grew up in, in South Central. He, you know, his father was, his father was killed when he was a kid.

And so now he’s got a grudge against white people and all that. That’s very, that’s a very stereotypical, you know, character trope of a, of a Black man that you could, that you could, but it’s, it’s the way that, that, but, and, you know, Ryan Coogler doesn’t, You know, change anything. He doesn’t try to make it a surprise or anything, but he explores why that character is like that.

He shows the full version of that character. And that’s, and even though he does have that, which if you just looked at it on paper would seem like a stereotypical origin story, when you look at how the character is executed, it is something that is much more well, exactly. 

[01:02:37] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. And, and two, not just the fact that, and two is not Killmonger story is Black Panther. So you see that dichotomy also happening and you see these two worlds happening. And so it’s not just about Killmonger having this one experience. It’s also about the world in which Killmonger lives and why this is happening, and why that is different from Wakanda, you know and what that dynamic means and, 

You know, we’ve been trying to say this for not we, but a bunch of people have been trying to say this forever. You know, I am a Black woman from America. I, I don’t, I’ve never been to Africa. I don’t understand that. I don’t understand all of that, you know, concept, but I know that I am from, my ancestors are from there. Right. But me as a Black woman, I grew up in America. There is a certain dynamic here. There is a certain way Black people are treated here. There is a certain experience that I have had as a person here. And that makes me different from. You know, Y. M. Nelson that could have grown up in Africa, had you know, been with my ancestors and everything like that and could have grown up in an African country or in wherever my ancestors were.

Perry C.: Right. 

Y. M. Nelson: Right. A whole different perspective. And so, actually by showing not just Killmonger and just that event, right? But also showing that whole dynamic and how that whole dynamic is different from, you know, T’Challa and from, you know, the Wakandan’s dynamic is amazing to me. And then too, also not just Wakanda, but actually bringing in the different tribes and all of those kinds of things. So it’s not just every Wakandan acts like this, right? So, 

[01:04:57] Perry C.: You know, no, no group, no one, no group is a monolith. Exactly. 

[01:05:00] Y. M. Nelson: Right. Right. You don’t have a monolith. You don’t have a, this person is standing in for this person. And then, so then when that person makes a mistake, it’s not everybody making that mistake.

Right? So, so, when Quill and Gamora don’t really aren’t seeming to really get along. It’s not just about, you know, you know this, this human and, you know, this, whatever she is are not getting along. You know what I’m saying? It’s like, these people have a complex relationship,and they’ve, and they’ve been through something, right? So we’re seeing all sides of that. It’s not, you know, StarLord has made a mess up, 

[01:05:40] Perry C.: Right 

[01:05:42] Y. M. Nelson: So, and that’s kind of the same thing to me. Like I felt with, you know, I felt that way with Drax. I felt that way with Rocket. I feel like I felt that way with everybody here. I saw, with Guardians Of Galaxy, I saw a growth happen.

Perry C.: Yes. 

Y. M. Nelson: Like everybody, like I saw them grow into kind of like a whole. person, like a whole character. And so if one of them had been killed off, I would probably still be crying to this day.

[01:06:15] Perry C.: Yes, absolutely. 

[01:06:16] Y. M. Nelson: Because I have grown to love these people. 

[01:06:19] Perry C.: Now I will say, I do have two minor criticisms of this movie.

One of them is Adam Warlock. I feel like there was originally a completely different plan for this character. He pops up at the end of Guardians 2

And in the comics, Adam Warlock was very heavily involved with the Infinity Gauntlet storyline. He was basically the you know, in the kind of like, I guess maybe the doctor strange role or, or something like that. Cause he was very much, you know, the key to solving it and everything like that. He’s the one kind of like a combination of Dr. Strange and Iron Man, I guess you could say, because he’s also the one who ends the conflict at the end. 

[01:06:53] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. 

[01:06:55] Perry C.: Obviously they come when a completely different direction, no objections to that.

I thought- I loved Endgame. It’s, it’s one of my favorite of the Marvel movies. So I’ve got no problems at all with the way they handled it, but I do fee and originally. Right. Cause the original plan is that James Gunn was going to do three Guardians movies, and then he was going to be kind of like the Kevin Feige of the cosmic side of Marvel.

He was going to be kind of like shepherding like all the, the cosmic movies of Marvel. That was the, that was a, I’ve heard this, I’m not sure if that’s been confirmed or not, but that’s what I’ve heard was the original plan. But After Guardians 2 came out, right, there were a bunch of these right-wing trolls.

They, they dug up some old tweets he had, he had made with some, some bad jokes that he had done because, you know, he was working for Troma at the time. He was, you know, doing this kind of like edgy humor type of thing. And it, you know, they got him briefly canceled and fired from Marvel. And then, And then, you know, they ended up, Marvel ended up reversing that decision, they brought him back, thanks in large part to Kevin Feige, and then he was allowed to, because then at first, he went over to DC, and DC’s like, okay, you want to do the Suicide Squad? You can do The Suicide Squad.

And then he went over to DC, and then Marvel came back, and they, they, they realized their mistake, they hired him back to do Guardians 3, but by that point, he had already been, seemed like the whole, things had changed in between what he was originally planning to do for Guardians 3 of what have actually ended up happening.

So I think eventually we’re going to get the full story about what his original plan was versus what ended up happening. But I do feel like there was originally something completely different for Adam Warlock because in this movie he does feel kind of tacked on. 

[01:08:35] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. Hmm. That is interesting. 

[01:08:39] Perry C.: Yeah. So that is my one big criticism. I felt like the Adam Warlock character felt kind of superfluous. He felt a little bit tacked on there. 

The other thing is, I love the soundtracks for both the first movie and the second movie, especially the second movie. I thought the music chosen in the first movie was better, but I thought the music that was used in the second movie was much more better – It had a much better integration into the story. Like, those songs fit at the different moments that they were being played at. 

[01:09:10] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

[01:09:11] Perry C.: Whereas this one, with the exception of probably the the Beastie Boys song, 

[01:09:17] Y. M. Nelson: Yes

[01:09:17] Perry C.: like, I just, I didn’t feel like the, the soundtrack really connected with the movie in the same way the soundtracks connected in the first two movies. 

[01:09:28] Y. M. Nelson: I’m going to agree with you there. I am also going to add that. I think for me, part of the reason why they didn’t connect is that They are newer, the songs are newer, so they didn’t, they don’t give you that same nostalgia kind of feel as the other songs do. And you’re right too, they’re not except for the Beastie Boys song, which was very much on-point, 

They’re not as on-point. Yes, yeah, you know, with what’s going on in the movie. The – I can’t remember what the now – I can’t remember what the 1st song was, but the 1st song was 

[01:10:13] Perry C.: yeah, it was Radiohead. I think it was “Creep.”

[01:10:13] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, so I, I was like, I get what they’re trying to do, but this is not the best song to do this.

[01:10:23] Perry C.: Yeah, and I’m biased and I know most of my friends are-are gonna, you know, break out the pitchforks when I say this, but I’ve never really liked Radiohead. 

[01:10:31] Y. M. Nelson: Oh. Yeah. Okay, so we don’t want the pitchforks to really come out with that, so we’re not gonna go there. But, you know, I will say, though, that, you know, It seems like Radiohead is like a go to for anything like action-y … gosh Matrix is Radiohead City. I mean, 

[01:10:53] Perry C.: yeah 

[01:10:54] Y. M. Nelson: Anything action-y and sci-fi and all that kind of stuff. It’s like, So maybe it’s a little overdone for us. Maybe that’s maybe 

[01:11:03] Perry C.: yeah, 

[01:11:04] Y. M. Nelson: But but I but for me personally the songs are newer Yeah. This one I noticed and the newer, it doesn’t evoke the feeling that the other ones did for me. Yeah. I agree with you on that. 

[01:11:20] Perry C.: I agree with that too. Yeah. I, I definitely felt, you know, that it did lack that nostalgia and I get the idea. It’s like, you know, he’s got the Zune now, so that’s why he has access to all this newer music. So I understand the reasoning behind it, but it just, it just didn’t feel, I mean, that It didn’t connect with me in that same way. I think maybe it would have worked better if they used some more like maybe, you know, some nostalgic 90s songs or something that would have worked a little bit better. But the way they did it just didn’t quite connect with me. 

[01:11:50] Y. M. Nelson: And, and two, I think you know, the songs are a little bit less universal than the other ones as well. So they don’t strike a chord across the, you know, people who are watching, I don’t think. 

[01:12:06] Perry C.: Right, and there’s nothing as brilliant as, like, the insight into Brandy in the second movie.

[01:12:11] Y. M. Nelson: Right? Oh my gosh. Lovely. Okay. So, I forgot, did we give this one a rating? 

[01:12:20] Perry C.: Yes, I gave this a 5. And you gave it, I think, a 4 or a 4.5? 

[01:12:24] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. Yeah. I think I gave it a 4 or a 4. 5. And I’m gonna stick with that. If it was a 4.5, then I’m gonna stick with that. If it was a 4, then I’m upping it to a 4.5. Because I’m now feeling that emotion.

Again, and so because I’m feeling it again, even after I’ve watched it, you know, that has gone on since I’ve watched it then. Yeah, we can give it another half a point. 

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Spiderman: Across the Spiderverse

[01:12:52] Y. M. Nelson: But, but yeah, so we’ve been talking a lot about these movies and we still have two more to go. Yes, the one that I did give a five to is actually Spiderman Across the Spiderverse.

This is one where I feel like it has everything for everyone that’s watching. It has your, your I am trying to find myself. I’m trying to figure out who I am. If you’re in that stage of life, whatever age you are, because that happens at different ages. It has all of the you know, this is one of the things where with, to me with Flashpoint, how you said, how they, you know, when they –

You know, went back and showed us all those different era things, you know, ever superheroes and, and and things like that to kind of show the different flash points or whatever or the different, you know what I’m saying? So to me where they did that wrong in The Flash, I think this is. When they get it right, when they show all the different Spiderman and and actually like going back in time and showing the comic and showing the old Spiderman, like Spiderman, Spiderman, that one.

And, you know, showing all the different Spidermen and showing, and even kind of connecting live. Live action people in with the animation. So it is not a hundred percent animation. Like it, you know, like it was with Across The Spiderverse. I mean, with Into The Spiderverse but they even have like live action going on here.

But what I really liked is kind of, it gives you that Spiderman kind of nostalgia there that I loved. And And it also, you know, gives like a good storyline, like the story of what they are doing. What Spiderman has to do, like, what is Miles Morales actually going through and what, what is the superhero thing that he has to overcome, The, you know, the villain being The Spot is not, you know, is a little bit more than what he thought, and all of this other kind of stuff.

That whole story that they created here is just mesmerizing. So you’ve got the good story for people who love story. You have the wonderful, like, character arcs and things that we see here. We have the the good themes of, you know, how we deal with family. Who we can become when we’re growing up, you know, what does it mean to be a friend?

What does it mean to, you know, be a hero in society? Does that mean, how does that interact with our personal lives? How do we deal with loss and tragedy? All of these things are here, and I think they did them really well, you know?

[01:16:18] Perry C.: I don’t really have a whole lot to add to that. I mean, 

[01:16:23] Y. M. Nelson: I was like, “Oh, what did I just say?”

[01:16:26] Perry C.: No, you are completely on point with all of that. And I, I think the only thing I would add to that is that I just, I love that they found this way to use different animation styles, which you got to, you got a little tiny taste of that in the first version, but I think 

Y. M. Nelson:Yeah, it’s very much 100 here.

Perry C.: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. This, 

[01:16:44] Y. M. Nelson:yeah, this is another one. I totally agree. That was like that was actually the last thing I wrote. Putting all the different types of animation together with live action is amazing. 

Perry C.: Yes.

And this is one of those that I also wish that I had seen in a theater. I actually saw the first. Miles Morales Spiderman in the theater like the last day that it was in the theater here. 

[01:17:11] Perry C.: See, I wasn’t able to see either of these in the theater like the second one I mentioned already, but also because here in Japan, like, when it comes to the live action movies, when those are released, they have, they release them in two versions.

They release them with the Japanese dub and one with, and one with the original language and Japanese subtitles. So I can see it in the original language. But when it comes to animation, Because the vast majority of animated movies in America are kids movies, so there’s, it’s, it’s, that’s what they’re mostly treated as here.

So when they’re released here, they’re pretty much only released in the theater in the dubbed version. They almost never have a subtitled version of it. So, so so yeah, I wasn’t able to see either one in the theater because of that, unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, I thought that the, they did a wonderful job of expanding the, the spiderverse stuff, you know, showing the spider society having, you know, bringing in Oscar Isaacs as spider man 2099 bringing back Peter and showing that his life, he’s now got, you know, baby May there and all that.

And I love, and, but also the, you know, the, and then we got to see these, the cast growing a little bit, like, you know, One of my favorite Spiderman characters is the Scarlet Spider, so I thought it was so cool seeing the Scarlet Spider. You had seen him rendered in like the 90s style and everything, even having like 90s style brooding and all that kind of stuff.

[01:18:29] Y. M. Nelson: Right? 

[01:18:30] Perry C.: It was perfect. It was awesome. I loved it. 

[01:18:33] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. I mean, just, yeah. If you can’t find a Spiderman that you love in this movie, you are not a Spiderman fan. I mean, 

[01:18:43] Perry C.: SpiderPunk! Amazing. Spiderpunk is so awesome in this. I loved him. 

[01:18:49] Y. M. Nelson: Oh my gosh. I mean, you know, it’s just, it’s so wild. I loved all of this, you know.

[01:18:53] Perry C.: And it’s just a, it’s just an added treat that they gave him a British accent because Hobie Brown is American in the comics. So, but to make him like, Oh, he is? Yes. So to make him like, like, he’s so cool. 

[01:19:04] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. He’s cooler as a British dude. 

[01:19:06] Perry C.: In the original comics, actually, he was actually the first, he was actually Prowler originally.

The idea, yeah, because originally Miles Morales was the ultimate Spiderman, right? So he’s from a different universe and they hadn’t introduced Hobie Brown in that universe yet. So they, when they decided to give him have, have his, you know, uncle be a villain, they decided to use the Prowler identity to give it a Spiderman connection.

So yeah, but in the comics, Hobie Brown was in the, in the main universe was the Prowler. 

[01:19:34] Y. M. Nelson: Wow. 

[01:19:34] Perry C.: Yeah. And not so much a villain, more of an antihero type of character, but and he still pops up from time to time, but I think he had changed his identity. I think he, now he’s the Hornet now. You know, he 

[01:19:45] Y. M. Nelson: kind of has an antihero a little bit.

Yeah. You know, he has a rebel. He has a rebel personality here. So he does have a little bit of that, but, but yeah, it’s just It’s just so many things. So many things. I have no idea why I wrote this down, but it says, oh, no, she opened the package. What did that have to 

[01:20:05] Perry C.: do with anything? I’ll be honest.

It’s been a while since I’ve actually had a chance to sit down and watch this movie all the way through. So I can’t watch 

[01:20:12] Y. M. Nelson: this yesterday. So I don’t know. I don’t know why. I I don’t know why I wrote that down. But anyway. You know, of course you know, Peter Parker is Manhattan, and you know, Miles Morales is Brooklyn.

Say that again. 

[01:20:27] Perry C.: I said, Peter Parker is Queens. 

[01:20:29] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, Queens. Yes, Queens. Um, Miles Morales is Brooklyn. And I just thought the way they did Brooklyn is very Brooklyn is very much that it’s, it’s, it’s almost like you’re there, but this is animated. It was amazing. So are you from Brooklyn yourself? I am not from Brooklyn, no.

I have an aunt that lives in Brooklyn, and I used to be there for a while. And I was recently there, actually. Well, so I, I, I’ve actually got 

[01:20:59] Perry C.: a little bit of a story to this because my late cohost on Superhero Cinephiles, born and raised in Brooklyn, lived there his entire life and he was never really a, he was a huge comic book fan, right?

But he was never really a Spiderman fan. He just never really connected to Spiderman in the same way he connected to like Thor or Superman or anyone like that. 

But we reviewed the first before he, he, fortunately, we were able to watch this first movie before he died, and we, we reviewed this first one and he was really taken with the idea of Brooklyn as a setting.

And he, it spoke to him a lot as someone who was from Brooklyn. 

[01:21:35] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, wow. Oh, wow. That’s especially, and 

[01:21:39] Perry C.: especially, well, especially being a Black man from Brooklyn too. Yeah, 

[01:21:42] Y. M. Nelson: exactly. Exactly. I was just, oh, it’s so, it’s very much, very much Brooklyn. I’m just like. Wow. And, and no, I will never claim that I’m from Brooklyn.

I’m very much a Southern girl, and I know how New Yorkers are. So I don’t touch, I don’t touch that, but what I know of it, it just seems very, it is very authentic and it’s just amazing because this is animated. You have to keep reminding yourself that this is animated at times. And I just think that’s amazing.

You know, that you are transcending. Like, like I’m immersed. I’m that immersed in this that I don’t feel like I’m watching something animated. 

[01:22:30] Perry C.: Honestly, I think the biggest complaint I have about this movie is that it is part one of 

[01:22:35] Y. M. Nelson: two. So that exactly! That is exactly what I was just like after I finished watching it.

I was like, are you kidding me! Yeah. That’s like the first thing I said, are you kidding me? Cause this is a freaking cliffhanger. And you know, they do this in romance novels every now and then they’ll do a cliffhanger kind of thing, but you’re, but I hate a cliffhanger! I want, I want to know.

That is why I … Now that we have streaming and we have the ability to binge watch things that I’m one of those people that waits until everything is you know, the season is there. and even the season, of course, you know, it’s gonna cliff You know, you know, it’s gonna cliffhanger, especially if it you know, if it’s gonna go into another season But I mean that’s the nature of TV But at the same time it’s like if I can watch the complete thing, I would like to at least watch the complete I know.

Oh my gosh. And, and of course, you know, like I said, this story, the actual story that’s going on, like what’s happening to Spiderman and why is he getting in all of this, the actual story is compelling. So when the story cuts off at the place that it does cut off, you’re like, Mouth hung open. Just like, what the F! Are you kidding me right now? You were just, I’m just, I was just flabbergasted. 

[01:24:17] Perry C.: And especially ‘cause we don’t have an official release date yet. It’s originally supposed to come out in March, but then it was that it was delayed indefinitely. So, we may not get it until next year, maybe not even later than that. So it’s, it’s.

[01:24:31] Y. M. Nelson: Please don’t tell me these bad things. Don’t tell me these bad things. Oh my gosh. So 

[01:24:33] Perry C.: I think that’s why I, that’s actually why I’m giving it a 4. 5. Because it’s just, just the fact that it ends on that cliffhanger like that. And we’re, and we don’t, we’re not, and we still, we’re still waiting for the, for part two.

[01:24:44] Y. M. Nelson: So even though I’m going to agree with you on your rating, I’m still giving this is this a five. And and that’s because once we get the continuing part, it doesn’t even matter if the continuing part is not exactly what I wanted. It’s going to be a continuing. It’s going to hopefully end. I’m pretty 

[01:25:02] Perry C.: sure.

Knowing what we’ve seen in the first two so far, I’m pretty sure that it’s going to stick the landing and it’s going to be like, it’s going to be a five all for this entire series. 

[01:25:11] Y. M. Nelson: It’s going to be amazing. It’s going to be amazing. So you know, I, I just, I just know it’s going to happen. 

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The Marvels

[01:25:16] Perry C.: That means we’ve got The Marvels left.

Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. And I have some mixed feelings about this. What were, what were your thoughts about, what’s your thoughts about the marvels? 

[01:25:26] Perry C.: So, I think this movie was unfairly, unjustly pilloried. I think this was – It’s a fun movie. This is, it’s, it’s, it’s not the best movie in the, that Marvel’s ever made. I’m not going to say anything like that, but it’s, it’s a good, decent superhero flick.

It’s breezy. Like the fact that it’s got the shortest runtime of any of the Marvel films. I think that’s actually a positive thing. It doesn’t, this film does not drag itself out. It’s, it’s very quick. It’s very fun. It is. I loved seeing these three actresses interact together, like Iman Villani I am blanking on the names of Brie Larson and Teona Paris.

The three of them together, it’s just magic watching them together on screen. And, it, yeah, I mean, the main villain is kind of crappy and doesn’t really do much for me. But, overall, like, the The, the strength of this movie is really in those three leads. And I think they do such a great job of, of tying it all together and selling it. 

[01:26:22] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. I think we’re going to have our second disagreement. Okay. I did not like this movie. But. I, okay, so in my mini review, I said that I feel like this movie was kind of one of those. There are a few in the, well, it’s more so the TV shows than the movies, But there are some points in the MCU where they make things to just be funny. Just connect characters or introduce other characters or try to make a foundation for another story that they’re trying to, that they’re trying to create or another storyline that they’re trying to create. I feel like, WandaVision is kind of like that, even though I liked WandaVision. I feel like WandaVision was like, kind of like a connection, right?

And a lot of the movies don’t do this. It seems like a lot of their TV shows. Or they’re like many TV shows that they have on Disney plus. It seems like a lot of them do this. WandaVision. com 

[01:27:42] Perry C.: Yeah, I think you’re right there. And I think it’s because they do it a lot of these TV shows, they’re kind of done to kind of like, fill in the gaps and to kind of like expand on some stuff that they can’t really expand on in, in the movies.

Because, you know, something like WandaVision, you can’t really do that as a movie, right? You can only do that as a TV show. 

[01:27:59] Y. M. Nelson: Right. And I feel like with this movie, this movie is doing that. This is one of the few movies I feel like that’s actually doing that. I will agree with you that this was fun. I love the interaction between the three characters, but for some reason Captain Marvel, Brie Larson, as Captain Marvel Carol, she was coming off to me and the thing is. She’s trying to show layers and I don’t think she’s doing that here, but she’s coming off to me as just being, I’m above all this. I can solve all this. And it’s, you know, because I’m, you know, basically, you know, I’m, I’m basically like a God here. You know, I’m just, you know, I have all this power and I can do all this stuff and I’m just going to fix all this. You know, she’s, she’s a type a control freak, you know?

And. She’s giving that and in the moments and then you have, you know, Ms Marvel Kamala Khan, who is like looking up to this person and it’s just like in awe of this person and it’s just like in awe of all of this, you know, because she’s new to all of this and, and you’re being this, you know, meanie.

Yeah. It’s the nicest PG way I can say that. Um, and then it turns out that, you know, you really created this whole mess in the first place. You basically created your villain. You realize that, right? So, and it, there’s no kind of. There’s a little, I’m going to make this right again, type a personality, but not necessarily remorse.

I feel from the character. So, to me, that’s a character that like, unlike Quill or unlike. You know, any of those characters in Guardians Of The Galaxy, like how we’ve like, how we’ve talked about how they’re round characters and we get to see the fullness of them. We just get to see this 1 side of this person.

And the other side is not really appealing. And that’s just kind of how I felt throughout this movie. And I loved Kamala Khan’s character in Ms. Marvel in that show. And to me, I think that show was like, the movie is the bridge and the show was really, you know, it’s kind of like the opposite kind of thing happening here. Like the movie is the bridge here between Kamala Khan’s origin story and whatever she’s going to do as Ms. Marvel, right. Or whatever’s going to happen after that.

I will say that this movie. Had all the funny moments, all the halfway kind of sarcastic moments that, you know, a good Marvel movie has. And so, of course, I’m not going to say I don’t like it. I’m giving it a negative of blah, blah, blah, but, I don’t like it as much as you liked it. I think. 

[01:31:26] Perry C.: Yeah, it sounds like that and I think you make some good points. I think, especially when you talk about. Carol’s, you know, the, the lack of remorse or all that. I think there, it’s there, but I think, and I think one of the, I think this goes back to the, the villain problem. I think if you had a better villain that was a little bit more developed, had a little bit more meat on the bones there, I think that would have helped to reflect more on Carol in that way, but we don’t get as much of that as I think we probably needed. So I do agree with you there. 

Yeah, I don’t think. I wouldn’t go as far though as you did saying that you thought it was no remorse or that she was completely above it all. I felt like there was a humanity to her, but I think, and I feel like, and this could very well just be me reading too much into it, but I do feel that, Carol is someone who has been apart from humanity for so long because she’s living with the weight of this responsibility is that she really kind of, it’s not that she doesn’t care, it’s just like she doesn’t remember how to connect.

And I think this goes back to the idea, again, this goes back to the idea, the, with their, they’re playing with the idea that she’s got, she’s kind of disconnected from her memories. And I, I think that’s what they’re trying to do. Cause I’ve seen this twice now. I saw it in the theater and I saw it on Disney+ and that part. I’m not sure how many times you saw it, but I think that that aspect of it came through more on the second viewing for me.

[01:32:56] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. So I probably need to watch it again to get the full whatever, because I’ve only watched it once, but I will say that I watched Ms. Marvel right before I watched this, you know, not right before, you know what I mean? And so when you have kind of that whole dynamic that Ms. Marvel has, you know, with the, with the whole family and the aunties and you know and all of this, It’s very much humanity there and then you get this, right?

You do feel a disconnect and, and, and I, I’m going to concede that. Yes, because she has been away from humans for so long. She doesn’t know how to connect and she does begin to start to understand that at the very end when they go to, um, the house whose house is that? Rambeaux. Captain Ram is that Captain Rambeaux’’s house?


[01:34:02] Perry C.: Yeah. Blinking on her, blinking on her name. Yeah, but, but, 

[01:34:06] Y. M. Nelson: Captain Rambeaux, the mom, 

[01:34:07] Perry C.: she 

[01:34:12] Y. M. Nelson: was Maria. And I remember that because the one thing that really struck me, you know, I was just watching along and I was like, okay, this is a cool story. I laughed. I blah, blah, blah, you know, and I’m, you know, having my good, you know, Marvel’s Avengers moment and then of course they have the mid credit scene

And I just went, Oh my God, Beast is here!

[01:34:42] Perry C.: And Kelsey Grammer again. And 

[01:34:44] Y. M. Nelson: it’s Kelsey Grammer Beast! And I was just like, I just, I just, I had I started crying! it was just like, Oh my God! 

[01:34:54] Perry C.: And, and for the, and for the first time in cinematic history, he actually looks like the Beast! Yeah, 

[01:35:00] Y. M. Nelson: Right? He actually looks like it!

Yeah. That’s so wow, but you know ever since You know, like I’ve like I said earlier and like I’ve said in previous, episodes, you know X-Men is what got me into this, and ever since I heard that The MCU finally bought Fox as far as the the you know Yeah, Disney bought Fox as far as that whole X-Men thing I have been waiting to see what they’re going to do.

And now I haven’t watched everything Marvel on Disney+, like all of the little side things or anything, but for me, this is the first time I have seen it come together since that, right. And I was just like, This is what I’ve watched this whole thing for! This is what, oh, and so you get, I get that whole giddy feeling.

And then you also, again, we see multiverse here. Yes. You know, so. 

[01:36:17] Perry C.: And there’s also a comic tie here because in the comics so you probably remember from the X-Men animated series that Ro got her powers from draining Ms. Marvel. Yes. And, and that happened in the, in the TV show too, right? She got her powers because she, she held on too hard to, to Ms. Marvel and she permanently drained her powers. Now in the show, Carol ends up being in a, in a coma because of that. And we never see her coming out of that coma. Although we, I, oh no, that was in a, that was in a different, that was in a Italian comic, nevermind. 

[01:36:47] Perry C.: But we, and so far in the show, we haven’t seen her come back from that coma.

But. In the comics, she was not in a coma. She woke up, except she didn’t have her memories anymore, and she didn’t have her powers, obviously. And, she ended up hooking up with the X-Men for a time, and Professor Xavier helped restore her memories. So, she had her memories, but she had, she remembered everything, but she had no emotional connection to them.

And then, We had a story where the X-Men went out in space, they fought this alien race called the Brood, basically the Xenomorphs, essentially. And Carol got these new powers, and she had like the power of a star or something like that, and she ended up taking on the name Binary. And she ended up, and that same costume that Maria’s wearing in that post credits scene, that is the costume that Carol wore as Binary. And she stayed as Binary. 

[01:37:42] Y. M. Nelson: So that is what that is. I was, I’ve been trying to figure that out forever. Okay. Oh my gosh. Now I’m really excited. Oh my gosh. I’m so excited right now. This is so wild. Oh my gosh. Oh, I’m going to totally have to lower the volume on this. So on this podcast, because I’m so excited.

But, oh yeah, you know, now I’ve, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I’m loving it. I’m, I’m loving it. I’m still, I still feel a certain way about this movie, but I love that tie in. I’m just, I’m loving all of this. Yes. 

[01:38:20] Perry C.: Now the question is, and this is something we may see pop up, we may see pop up in Deadpool and Wolverine, but I am wondering if, so we had, We had Patrick Stewart come back as professor X in multiverse of madness.

And he was in the animated series. Look, right. He was in the, the, the golden hover chair and everything we had, we have beasts come up in here played by Kelsey grammar, obviously, but much more in the, like the 90 style beast also from the animated series. And now we’ve got Hugh Jackman coming back as Wolverine and Wolverine and Deadpool, and he’s wearing the yellow and blue costume.

So the thing I’m wondering is, are they all from the same universe? 

[01:39:00] Y. M. Nelson: See, that’s what I, that’s exactly what I was thinking. And that is, and it’s like, now, are they from the same universe? Now, is this universe going to be the same universe that the Avengers are in now? It’s like, 

[01:39:15] Perry C.: no. So I don’t think they’re going to do that because I think they’re going to be different.

[01:39:19] Y. M. Nelson: I know I’m with you on that. I think they’re going to be in different universes. But, yes, are they in the same universe? 

[01:39:28] Perry C.: Yeah, yeah. I think what’s, I think what’s going to happen is, I think we’re kind of getting the tease of this with what’s happening in Fantastic Four, because in Multiverse of Madness we had John Krasinski play Mr. Fantastic in that. And, He was, and he was like the fan cast for Mr. Fantastic for, for years. So they decided to, so Marvel decided, well, let’s bring him in for this as a fun thing for the, since fans have been clamoring for him, but then they didn’t cast him in the fantastic four movie and the fantastic four movie.

It’s going to be Pedro Pascal playing Reed Richards. 

[01:39:59] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah. 

[01:39:59] Perry C.: So, but 

[01:40:00] Y. M. Nelson: you 

[01:40:00] Perry C.: know, but 

[01:40:01] Y. M. Nelson: you know what, that, that’s another fancast. I’m sorry. That’s another fancast. 

[01:40:06] Perry C.: It is. But the thing is, is I’m thinking is like, they’re not going to have these same actors from the Fox movies come back in, in, when they bring the X Men, they introduce the X-Men into the MCU proper. 

I think it’s gonna be something where, my theory is it involves the Infinity Stones, and that, you know, mutation has been kind of jump started because of all the Infinity Stone shenanigans, and that’s why mutants are gonna start appearing on in the MCU. Probably after Secret Wars is done, is probably what my theory is.

[01:40:37] Y. M. Nelson: That’s a good theory. 

[01:40:38] Perry C.: But they’re all going to be recast. I mean, there’s rumors now that because they just announced that Giancarlo Esposito has been cast in the MCU, they haven’t said who he is playing yet. Right. 

[01:40:49] Y. M. Nelson: They have not. But 

[01:40:51] Perry C.: everybody, lots of people have been clamoring for years that he might be a great Professor X.

[01:40:56] Y. M. Nelson: Right. And see, somebody was saying ’cause we were talking about Quantumania. Somebody was saying, yeah, he might be Kang. And I was like, no, he is not. 

[01:41:06] Perry C.: He might be a new version of Kang. Yeah, that could be a too, 

[01:41:08] Y. M. Nelson: yeah. 

[01:41:09] Perry C.: I, I don’t think they’re gonna, all we know about, all we know about Kang so far is that Jonathan Majors is not coming back and

Y. M. Nelson: Right.

Perry C.:  They have removed the title Kang Dynasty from the, that Avengers film. So we don’t know what that Avengers film is gonna be called yet. And we don’t know. We know that Jonathan Majors isn’t coming back, but we don’t know if that means Kang is coming back. Right? We don’t know if Kang is gonna, they’re just gonna recast Kang, which, I think they will. Like, it just, it seems stupid to ditch such a huge Marvel character. Especially after he’s been built up so much. 

[01:41:40] Y. M. Nelson: Right, exactly. I mean, yeah. But yeah, they, they’re saying all kinds of stuff. But yeah Oh, all the, hmm, all the ideas that this is sparking for me right now.

You know one thing that I really hope they work with or I hope they, you know, think about revisiting is the characters that were on that, the, now I can’t even remember the name of the show. It was, it was an X Men show, type show, but it wasn’t X Men. It was a 

[01:42:16] Perry C.: Oh, are you talking about The Gifted

[01:42:18] Y. M. Nelson: The Gifted, yes. I really hope that they revisit The Gifted. You know, and maybe not as the gifted, but just kind of revisit that whole thing, you know, because I thought that was that was really I thought it was going somewhere before it got canceled.

And I was like, well. Now, it’s canceled and, you know, all of that. So I, that was 1 of the things 

[01:42:46] Perry C.: I loved about the gift is the fact that it brought in all these minor X characters, like Thunderbird! Thunderbird gotten far more to do in that series than he’d ever gotten in the comic books. Yep. Yeah. 

[01:42:58] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, really? Yeah. He just seemed like he was a major character. 

[01:43:03] Perry C.: No, he was killed off, like, in his second appearance. Oh 

[01:43:06] Y. M. Nelson: my gosh! But I love that character! Because 

[01:43:09] Perry C.: there’s, he had like, because basically, when they did the comic books, right, they brought in this new team of X-Men, which included, it was Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Sunfire, Banshee, and Thunderbird.

And Then when they were proved so popular, it was just a one shot comic. They were going to relaunch the X-Men book with these characters. And they realized that Okay, well, Thunderbird doesn’t really bring much to the table because his personality is very much like Wolverine’s but he’s, he’s a strong guy, but he’s not as strong as Colossus and he’s, you know, he’s a healer and he’s got this, you know, these tracking abilities, but they’re not as the extent of Wolverine. So he’s kind of superfluous. So they ended up killing him off in the second appearance. 

[01:43:53] Y. M. Nelson: Yeah, but, and see, but with his own, with. The gifted and with, you know, him away from the X-Men per se, he works, he works with that, with that group. So if they resurrect that, they need to resurrect it with that group 

[01:44:12] Perry C.: And he has been, he has been resurrected actually in the comics. He recently, he, he was recently resurrected. Yeah. 

[01:44:17] Y. M. Nelson: Oh, good. I’m glad about that. And on that note of resurrection and X-men, we have collectively been talking for a very long time and I know that Perry, you need to get your Sunday started with your family, and I need to go to bed. Um, so I just want to say thank you for talking with me on, about all of these I don’t know if we gave The Marvels a rating, did we?

[01:44:50] Perry C.: I don’t think so, but I think I would probably give it 3.5. 

[01:44:56] Y. M. Nelson: Okay. All right. I still am going to give this 4 because I’m a nice person. 

[01:45:03] Perry C.: Oh, okay. So I liked it better than you, and somehow your rating is higher. 

[01:45:07] Y. M. Nelson: Actually, I am not sure what I rated it before. That’s why I’m just giving everything a 4 because I think I gave it a 4. But But really, you know, I, I’m, you know, I’m not as happy with that. Now, that might be a 4, but that might be just because I’m a nice person. Not because that movie was just the best ever. But I think part of the whole me giving it a 4 has to do with that mid credit saying that we just talked about it.

And the fact that that kind of connects that those things also, because it got me to watch Ms. Marvel, which I was planning on not doing. I was planning on just kind of skipping it and I’m glad I didn’t skip it because I loved Ms. Marvel. So part of that for rating is actually for Ms. Marvel, the TV show.

The reason. Yeah, the reason why I ended up watching Ms. Marvel is because I knew I was going to watch The Marvels, and I knew that I needed Ms. Marvel – needed to know what was going on there so I could understand and I’m glad I did. Not just for the understanding, but just because Ms Marvel is wonderful.

So that is part of it. 

[01:46:25] Perry C.: And I will also say this Iman Villani who plays, plays Kamala Khan. She has now. She’s also a huge comic book fan, obviously. And she is, she is actually writing a Ms. Marvel comic book right now. It’s called Ms. Marvel I can’t remember, like, New X-Men or something like that, because they’ve resurrected her. Because in, in the comics, she was an Inhuman, but the, the creator’s original intent was to make her a mutant.

And but back at that point, Marvel has had this whole thing with Fox, and they didn’t want to give more credit, and because the head of Marvel at the time was a douchebag, and he didn’t want to, and he, his whole idea was we’re going to replace, the mutants with the Inhumans, which nobody liked. It was a stupid idea. It ended up crashing and burning.

And then, once he got kicked out of Marvel, basically by the shareholders at Disney, they basically said like, oh yeah, we’re keeping the mutants back. So that’s why in the end of Ms. Marvel, if you listen closely when Bruno says, you know, you’re, it’s, it’s, there’s a mutation.

Yes. You can hear the chords of the X-Men theme song. 

[01:47:32] Y. M. Nelson: Yes. 

[01:47:33] Perry C.: So she’s a mutant in the MCU and now she’s been confirmed to be a mutant in the comic books as well. So she’s so that’s why 

[01:47:41] Y. M. Nelson: that, oh gosh, you hear stuff. 

[01:47:45] Perry C.: So she’s writing, so Iman Villani is writing a comic. I’m not sure, I think it might be open now, but it’s called it’s called Ms. Marvel, The New Mutant, I think is what the title is. 

[01:47:52] Y. M. Nelson: Oh my gosh. I love that. I love all of this. Oh my god. 

[01:47:59] Perry C.: And it’s, it’s great. It’s a very good comic book. She’s got such a handle on that character. She’s a great, she’s a great actress and she’s a great writer, too. 

[01:48:08] Y. M. Nelson: Perry, see, you’re getting me closer. 

[01:48:12] Perry C.: It is on Marvel unlimited.

So, you know, it is that 97 cents for the first month. So it’s definitely worth it. 

[01:48:17] Y. M. Nelson: Here we go. And on that note, Perry, what about you? Where can we find you these days? Give us contact information, socials, everything. 

[01:48:30] Perry C.: I will. If you want to hear me talk more about superhero movies, I am on the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. You can find that at or just search superhero cinephiles on your podcast app of choice. We’re on all of them. 

On social media mostly you can find me on Threads. I’m @perconstantine @perconstantine on that. That’s the same one on instagram and blue sky as well So I’m on those as well, but most of my activity is on Threads. 

And if you’re interested in my work, my website is I have books. I’ve got like 30 books out. I’ve got some superhero books. I’ve got some urban fantasy books. My new urban fantasy is coming out in June, fingers crossed and my serial which is gonna, which is gonna launch with the superhero serial is gonna be coming out also in June, probably, fingers crossed, and you can find out more information on that.

If you join my mailing list, which you can also find through, you can be notified when I launch the serial because I’m going to have a free one month coupon available to anyone who subscribes to my mailing list. So if you subscribe to the mailing list at any time you’re listening to this, that will go out. It’s going to be part of the autoresponder sequence, so you’ll be able to have access to that. So that, those are where you can find me. 

[01:49:48] Y. M. Nelson: That sounds wonderful. And you know, we’re going to have all that contact info in the show notes at And Perry, I am so glad that we got to talk about these movies.

Oh, even though it seemed like it took forever for us to get together and do this, I’m glad we did. And you know, I’m going to have you back because I have got to talk X-Men ’97 with you. 

[01:50:17] Perry C.: I am so looking forward to that. Yes, I am totally here for that. 

[01:50:21] Y. M. Nelson: Thanks for being on.

[01:50:21] Perry C.: Thank you. 

[01:50:24] Y. M. Nelson: While that’s the end of our discussion, it’s not the end of the story. Check out my website at

And while you’re there, Sign up for my newsletter to get show notes of the episodes in your inbox.

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Thanks for listening and for watching.

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